Great Western Coffee Shop

I know you cannot buy most Advance Tickets after 6pm the night before and seat reservations for some early morning trains close at the same time but is it now the case you cannot reserve any seats for future journeys after 6pm?

I know I have done it before but was told tonight by a booking clerk at a large FGW station that it wasn't possible and to come back tomorrow.

Some stations vary, on the NRE website station pages, some will show seperate times for when Advance bookings are available.

Edit: having looked at a couple FGW stations, it seems they don't now?

Aren't manned ticket offices supposed to sell you the full range of tickets?

I'm in London and was passing Paddington a few minutes ago.  Advanced Ticket counters all closed.   One guy say (just waiting for customers) in "Travel Today", refused to sell me tickets for Wednesday evening.  He advised me to phone ("up to 22:00") as he's not set up to issue tickets for future dates ...

Hey, ho .. I know it says "travel today", but I though there was a requirement if there was a manned ticket office open at a station for them to sell a full range of tickets ...

On Wednesday, I'll be rushing into Paddington, no time to queue ...

I work in IT.. You work in IT.. we know that it has to be possible? Surely?

I also know that the First Great Western member of staff at our local manned (part-time) station has been known to apparently decide for himself whether he will sell tickets or not ...  ::)

Yu would have thought so technically.  I was wondering if the limit is programmed into the machines at the "today" counter even when no other counter are open, or trained into the counter operatives  ;)

Actually a serious question as I was unable to purchase full ticket range from a station where there was a manned ticket office open, which I understood to be a franchise requirement.

I have certainly been told in the past that I could not buy advance tickets after 18:00 even though I didn't want tickets for the next day but further ahead.

are the ticket office staff not commisioned, I am assuming not or surely they would jump at the chance to sell advanced tickets

Well yes.. Though not good customer service if so? Are you going to question FGW about this?

If such staff want to be so inconsiderate to the needs of their customers then they should carry on as they are. Their employers will continue to provide more and more automated points of sale and these staff will soon find themselves out of a job.

The 'Tickets for Today' and 'Advance Travel Sales' parts of Paddington booking office use exactly the same ticket issuing system so it can only be local instruction or laziness on the part of the staff member to not sell a ticket for travel the next day. Even the TVMs will do that after 6pm. I'm surprised this staff member didn't suggest that - another option that could make his/her job obsolete if they want to continue being unhelpful.

I'm also wondering if there is a general morale problem at FGW at the moment. The amount of staff I overhear, or even when engaging in conversation, complaining about their lot and the lack of support from management, has noticeably risen in recent times. I get the impression that FGW is in wind down mode at the moment.

If a station has manned ticket facilities (from where the operator is obliged to offer impartial retailing) the full range of tickets has to be offered. This is part of the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement and is binding on all operators as a condition of the licence issued to them by the Regulator to operate passenger rail services.

I would be complaining to FGW about the staff member concerned.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/SCHEDULE%2017%20-%20December%20%2712.pdf

That's from the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement, Schedule 17, which is the list of ticket offices on the network. A lot of the FGW stations either don't offer reservations at all, or only offer them between certain times. The note for Paddington has a different wording to the rest of the stations, it states Advance Purchase tickets will only be sold between 0700 and 2100. Other stations say tickets requiring reservations will only be sold between certain times. So whether that means Paddington only offers Advance Purchase tickets between 0700 and 2100 or will only sell any ticket in Advance between 0700 and 2100 is unclear. It's possible the Today Ticket Only windows aren't connected to the reservation system, so can't offer Advance Purchase tickets, but they should still presumably be able to sell walk up tickets in advance.

As far as I've been told in the past, commission cannot be paid to ticket office sales or revenue protection staff, I'm pretty sure the penalty fare rules specifically rule the latter out.

On train staff can receive commission because revenue is not their primary role.

Paul

Close but not quite. Southern for example pay their Revenue Protection Staff 5% commission.

It is in FGWs Penalty Fare 'contract' that no authorised collector will gain any commission. The documents Southern sent to the SRA are different and stated 5% (which was approved). Interestingly, you cannot get a Penalty Fare from anyone not wearing uniform from FGW (it's also in their contract that all authorised collectors will wear uniform at all times when 'collecting'.

With regard to the actual post, it's utter twaddle - there is no difference, just the date field for tickets. Lazy.

Hmmm ... I asked the question for clarification - my understanding that if there was a manned ticket facility, it should be able to sell all tickets at all times it's manned from the Ticketing and Settlement agreement. Logically, it's OK to split that to "today" and "advanced" where both are open, but if one's shut my understanding was always that the other had to offer a full range.   It sound like that may not actually be the case - "Advance Purchase tickets will only be sold between 0700 and 2100" in the quote - or at least that any breaking of the settlement rules has sanction higher than the staff member.

But - agreed - it's the sort of situation that lessens the use of staff at all.   I sat on the concourse, ordered my tickets online, grabbed a coffee and waited a few minutes, and collected them from a machine. Thank goodness I wasn't hanging around for the two hours that is sometimes suggested.  Interestingly, fares available right up to departure ended up cheaper than tethered ... and there's yet another "huh" about the system!

Comment also made above about the loss of morale.   Perhaps that explains getting on the TransWilts at Melksham the other day and - most unusually - train manager disappearing into rear cab and not reappearing to sell tickets to those just let onto the train.   Result - need to talk way through barrier at Swindon to buy ticket (Melksham -> London walkup superoffpeak).  It could have been that there was something wrong with the ticket machine with the train manager, but it would have been nice to be told and to be advised what was expected of us in the circumstances;  I can imagine others making the connection arriving at Paddington unticketed, and being asked why they had not bought at the Swindon opportunity.

Unfortunately it's the usual story- there are a certain number of colleagues who are on permanent morale downers and that will never change.. despite probably never having it so good career wise.

Despite this there are some of us who are a little more jovial and this won't necessarily change!  ;)

Some interesting anomalies in the Schedule. It seems you can buy advance tickets or reservations later in the day at Taunton, Exeter St David's, Plymouth and Swindon than you can at Bristol Temple Meads.

Re morale - it must be pretty widespread.

In the past, train staff have been pretty quick to snap up selling weekend first upgrades. On Sunday, went for a trip (on a STD comp) willing to upgrade on four separate HSTs. On only the last one (and that he only just got to me before I alighted) was I even approached for a ticket check....Saved at least ^60....

Looking through the Schedule it certainly isn't just FGW who limit the times tickets requiring reservations are available, it's pretty widespread across the TOCs. At a large number of Greater Anglia stations before 0900 they will sell "tickets for line of route only".

I cannot the remember the last member of ticket office staff (not just FGW) who said good morning/afternoon/evening (the last two being increasingly unlikely anyway given the opening hours) and goodbye.

Generally, in my experience, they stare at you, you say something (preferably a bread and butter request), the price might be mentioned or more frequently the money is just handed over/card inserted, the tickets get handed over and you say thank you walking away distinctly underwhelmed from that interaction. I have worked in retail and regardless of how busy it is I have always greeted the customer and said goodbye at the minimum (even if I didn't feel like it).

The last altercation I had was asking for a ticket for tomorrow (someone with me confirmed I did say that) leaving the queue of 6 or so (only 1 window open naturally) to find out it was issued for today. Queued back up to get it corrected, only to be told fairly agressively that I was in the wrong and that was what I asked for (FCC). One of the regulars behind me stated "she is always like that".

I use the TVM's/Online now where I can. I like to start my journeys without walking away with a sour taste in my mouth, feeling like I have been a burden to some miserable git.

OT: I phoned Comet up the day before they went into administration with a product enquiry. The person on the end could not stifle their laughter as their manager "was saying something funny" whilst she was on the phone to me.

I can remember the last instance of having a member of staff greet me very politely. The lady who works in Redruth ticket office is always very friendly and gives a good opening greeting without fail.

I was shocked a few weeks ago to get great customer service from London Overground at Acton Central.  The clerk seemed pleased to be dealing with an enquiry somewhat more complex than just topping up an Oyster card or issuing an in-boundary Travelcard.  As there was no queue because most transactions are done on the TVM, he spent much longer than most staff would dealing with my request and ensuring I left satisfied.  Quite a refreshing experience to be honest.

Most of the time now, I tend to avoid the ticket office due to the current illness of "let's make it up as we go along" or "sell you a different ticket to what you asked for" which seems to be spreading like wildfire.  Unfortunately, there are still times when the ticket office is essential.

The staff that work at the Maidenhead ticket office are always helpful I've found..

And top marks too at Chippenham.

A while ago now, there was an extremely helpful young man in the Thames Valley ticket office at Paddington ...  ;) :D ;D

Who can now be founding tweeting away all day

He was very jolly.  ::)

Amateur mistake. He still works there from time to time.


I have to say, I'm getting less and less happy with ticket office staff - my current highlight is when a staff member decided to laugh at me and ask her colleagues "Who does he think we are" and telling me to (paraphrased) "go to a travel agent".

I get a "hello" and "how are you?" or other introductions from small station staff, Reading however, all of them (specially one of the managers) [except Daniel] are miserable.

From the horse's mouth - one shift in the ticket office helping out on New Year's Eve. That's hardly 'time-to-time'. So no need to accuse CfN of making an 'amateur mistake'.  ::)

No need to accuse this person of being a horse either. ::)

I could patiently explain to you the difference between using an idiom and accusing someone of making an 'amateur mistake' but I think I may just be doing this:

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/bash-head.gif)

On the contrary: I chose my words very carefully.  The Thames Valley ticket office at Paddington closed on 15 November 2008 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2386.0).  :-X

Or before you know it they will be in a burger  ::)

Oh dear; you've taken this far too seriously. Don't hit your head too hard.

I guess I should give a little bit of a timeline, I don't have exact dates to hand.

May 2006 - Ollie joins FGW at the London & Thames Valley Ticket Office at Paddington
November 2008 - The LTV ticket office closes whilst I am on Holiday. I return from holiday and do some work in what was the Customer Reception in front of platform 2 and 3.
June 2009 - Get put on a brief secondment to provide some support to the "putting customers first" training course
September 2009 - Secondment ends, go back to customer reception, during this time customer reception closes and staff moved to help desks under departure screens. I then get moved to Advance travel but occasionally found in tickets for today or on help desk if required (bit of a jack of all trades)
May 2012 - Present: Seconded to Social Media :)

Hope this helps settle anything between you all..

Being a Vegetarian since before I was born... I really, really shouldn't find that funny... But I've just spluttered my coffee across the desk through laughing! Thanks. Cheered me up no end that has! ;D

Also my nickname of veggiesaurus has been recently been changed following the purchase of a new livery by ladyfriend trout:

(http://images.t-shirts.com/toddlers-grumposaur-tshirt-logo-hr.jpg)

OK ... Thanks to Ollie, I have an answer to the original question:


There are different staff / rosters in the two offices, with different training  and


Thanks, that clarifies it for me.  My understanding that if there's a manned ticket facility open, all tickets must be offered was simplistic; that is the rule, but there's exceptions made, and Paddington is one of them ...

Why the exception? Paddington is a major London Terminal it should have 24 hour ticket selling facilities for all types of tickets.

Or are we out to rook people by making them buy Anytime tickets from machines!

Perhaps we should  just  accept that as nation we are totally hopeless at customer service.

Looking at the schedule 17 document linked to earlier, some other London Terminals are the same. I suspect it will come down to the fact there are 2 offices with 2 intended purposes.

Follow up to me (by p.m.) from Ollie, and my reading of the document:

The following FGW operated ticket offices have manned ticket offices which are allowed to sell a restricted range of tickets at certain times.
Bath Spa
Bristol Temple Meads (No reservations sold on Sundays!)
Ealing Broadway
Exeter St Davids
London Paddington
Maidenhead
Newbury
Oxford
Reading
Slough
Taunton

Thanks for the link ;-) ... http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/SCHEDULE%2017%20-%20December%20%2712.pdf

The site which I've used in the past to find out when to go to the station to buy tickets - National Rail - doesn't seem to document these restrictions obviously. http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/pad.html just says "Ticket office opening: Monday-Sunday 24 hours, Saturday 24 hours, Sunday 24 hours without any clue as to the restrictions.  And I've looked at the page for Temple Meads and it gives no clue that the Sunday ticket sales are limited.  Are the public really supposed to read the ATOC document before buying tickets for future travel?

Edit - corrected "FGW operated stations" to "FGW operated ticket offices". Network Rail operate Paddington station, so my initial post was imprecise!

There's also a large number of stations which can't sell advance purchase tickets at all as they don't have the facility to make reservations. It's mainly small stations, particularly in the Thames Valley area. The situation is repeated across most TOCs, with lots of smaller stations not offering reservation.

Is that document available to all? That is very interesting if so/if not.. Apparently, according to it, reservations at Maidenhead stop at 5pm although the ticket office is generally open until 9.. I do wonder how this is advertised to the general public??? I have commuted from there for 20 years and have never seen anything to suggest this might be the case.

Hmm.  ::)

See also a previous topic on this forum, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10678.0 - which I'm minded to merge with this one, "purely in the interests of continuity and completeness", as I usually explain ...   ;)

In the ATOC document, I liked the following entry for Oakham:

The availability of advance purchase ticket sales at stations seems to be fossilised in time, and appears to be based on the prevailing practice at individual stations at the time of privatisation.

Thinking back to the mid 1990s, the purchase of an advance tickets with reservations appeared to be a time-consuming affair. Staff referred to the printed timetable to plan the journey, made reservations by typing codes into an old green-screen computer, and hand-wrote reservation details onto the little blue reservation tickets, or on the back of the old apex tickets. In fact the process was so specialised that many stations had segregated windows or separate travel centres for these types of transaction. At smaller stations without segregated facilities, advance purchase tickets were not sold at peak times, because the extended transaction times would have caused excessive queues.

Nowadays, with new ticketing technology, the issue of most advance purchase tickets appears much more straightforward, with the whole process taking a fraction of the time, and everything done on a single ticket machine which contains all the necessary timetable, fares and reservation data. In fact it is so easy now that passengers are encouraged to do the work themselves by booking on-line. So it must be an absolute doddle for an experienced ticket office salesperson. At the same time, self-service ticketing machines are provided at many stations, meaning that passengers with straightforward ticket requirements no longer have to queue at the ticket window if they do not wish to. There is possibly an argument that the staffed ticket office is now only relevant for complex transactions or customer service/aftersales activities, and operators should be concentrating and encouraging these interactions with customers, rather than turning them away.

It's probably time that the role of the ticket office is reviewed to reflect the customer needs of today and the foreseeable future (rather than those of twenty years ago), and the old schedule of booking office opening hours and product range availability is given a much-needed update.

My experience this morning at a small staffed station (reluctant to identify the sole member of staff) may show why staff at windows designated for tickets for immediate travel at large stations may be reluctant to get involved with arranging tickets for future travel.

Firstly, let me record that the lady on duty was excellent in her manner and patience and couldn't have been more helpful.  I wanted a 1st Class All Line Rover (with Senior Rail Card) and then to reserve a seat for Monday morning to Paddington.  It took about fifteen minutes to process the transaction because the ticket couldn't be found for some time (I'm not sure one had been sold by this member of staff before) and the reservations refused to be made (apparently) until a return journey was put in.  I was told that the system is new and I guess unfamiliarity with the system, the product being sold and the unusual combination of ticket and reservation may well have caused the delays, but it illustrated to me what could have happened if even one or two people had arrived ten minutes early for their train to purchase a ticket for immediate travel.  I deliberately went to the station 'off peak' and fortunately no-one else appeared until the reservations, were being printed, which was eight minutes after the Rover. 

I note BandH's comments about the way in which technology has simplified the process, but my experience today suggests the complexities of the job are still a challenge when even the most helpful staff are asked for something a bit out of the ordinary.