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Title: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: TerminalJunkie on April 14, 2012, 10:49:30 Scroll down for the bit where Richard Gibson* of Cross Country Trains tries to explain the fare system:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/apr/13/rip-off-britain-everything-expensive * There was a Richard Gibson at Wessex. Is it the same person? Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: LiskeardRich on April 14, 2012, 10:54:21 I'd probably suggest he had a look at NRCoC
Quote RG: If you choose to buy multiple tickets for a simple journey, you may find it's considerably cheaper. But you're not getting the guarantee of the service all the way through. If your train from A to B was delayed, and you missed the train from B to C, you'd have to buy a new ticket. Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Btline on April 14, 2012, 11:40:14 Um... but the split tickets were on the same train, so delays are irrelevant. ::)
XC have gone down even further in my estimations. Fancy saying some of that stuff to a journalist! It's clear that XC don't want long distance passengers clogging up their trains + their luggage, why does he just admit it. Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on April 14, 2012, 12:08:49 Not wanting to defend xc.... If you split advance tickets you would have to get off the train following the rules to the letter
Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: JayMac on April 14, 2012, 12:46:30 What are you on about relex????
Split Advance tickets do not require you to get off the train. If you think they do, then by what 'letter of the law' are you referring? National Rail Conditions of Carriage 19(b) (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf) allows you to use multiple tickets for one journey, does not exclude Advance Purchase and does not require you to alight at your split point, you're train merely has to call at the split point. Quote 19. Using a combination of tickets You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies: (a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use); (b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one ticket to another; or (c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not. The guidance issued to staff regarding use of a combination of Advance Purchase tickets also explains that if you are travelling on two Advance Purchase tickets that requires a change of trains then if the train from A-B is delayed, you are permitted to take the next service from B-C with the same operator of your original booking. The only condition the passenger must meet is to have allowed the minimum connection time (as defined in National Rail Timetable) at the station where they are changing trains. From guidance issued to staff ('The Manual'): Quote Advance fares - Frequently Asked Questions Q04 - Can a customer buy two Advance tickets which join together to make one journey, e.g. ticket for A-B plus ticket for B-C, to travel the throughout journey A-C? A: Yes, provided the train calls at B Note 1: Where a passenger buys multiple Advance tickets in this way, if they then have to change their booking, it will also cost them multiple amounts of ^10 fee. Note 2: Where separate train companies are used for A-B and B-C with a change of train and ticket at B, it is still classed as a through rail journey in the event of delays (see also Q22 below) provided connections were booked in accordance with the advertised minimum times for stations. For example, a passenger travelling Cambridge to Leeds holding a combination of Cambridge ^ Peterborough ^XC only^ and Peterborough ^ Leeds ^EC only^ is allowed to take the next East Coast service in the event of a delay on the CrossCountry journey causing the connection to be missed. Q22 - Can a passenger travel on any trains other than the one on which they are reserved, without changing the booking? A: The following principles apply. 1). Start of the Journey. It is the passenger^s responsibility to turn up at the start of the journey in time for the first train. If they miss it due to problems parking, taxi not turning up etc, they must buy a new ticket; 2). Once the journey has begun. If the passenger is delayed and the rail industry or its partners (as shown below) is at fault, which should be checked with your Control Office, change to another train of the same company is allowed to get them to their destination with the least delay. This is irrespective of combinations of rail tickets held. It's really most concerning that someone at the top of the industry is going on record and coming out with poppycock. It's also concerning that a member of rail staff appears to be misinformed. ::) Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Worcester_Passenger on April 14, 2012, 13:45:18 I read this piece (before seeing it here) with mounting incredulity.
Richard Gibson is quoted as saying that "I think the fare of ^147.50, at less than 50p per mile, is a fair price for the 300-mile journey". I don't agree with him - it's ridiculously high. I travel up to the North East from time to time. I used to go up on an early train and arrive at my customer's offices about 11:00. But now that CrossCountry have imposed such massive fares increases for travel before 09:30, it's now cheaper for me to travel up the evening before and stay in a hotel. And that's at British hotel prices (which aren't even mentioned in the article). Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: ellendune on April 14, 2012, 21:50:55 If an official spokesman for XC is being correctly reported in the National Press as saying something that is contrary to th National Conditions of Carriage surely there should be an offical complaint. But who to?
Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: EBrown on April 14, 2012, 21:53:30 If an official spokesman for XC is being correctly reported in the National Press as saying something that is contrary to th National Conditions of Carriage surely there should be an offical complaint. But who to? I'd go with XC and the newspaper itself.Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 14, 2012, 21:55:13 The Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) and / or the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR)?
Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: EBrown on April 14, 2012, 21:56:42 The Association of Train Operating Companies (ATOC) and / or the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR)? Better answer!Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: JayMac on April 14, 2012, 22:08:18 I was a little bored earlier, so I drafted letters to both CrossCountry and ATOC. Sat waiting to go in a 'drafts' folder at the moment.
Just waiting to see if (and how) CrossCountry respond through their social media feeds on Monday.... Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Ollie on April 14, 2012, 23:29:05 I dunno how the interview was done, but just reading them felt uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Btline on April 15, 2012, 00:02:30 BNM, I'd send the letter anyway and contact the press. Even if XC hastily correct themselves, it would make a good Daily Mail story!!!
Several angry commuters have already vented their rage on XC's Facebook page. Nothing as yet on Twitter. I expect the page admins will be shocked and call a crisis meeting with managers. Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 15, 2012, 00:11:07 Quote ... it would make a good Daily Mail story!!! Isn't that an oxymoron? :P Quote Several angry commuters have already vented their rage on XC's Facebook page. Nothing as yet on Twitter. I expect the page admins will be shocked and call a crisis meeting with managers. Indeed: I'm even now calling a crisis meeting with my management team here. :P Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: devon_metro on April 15, 2012, 00:12:26 Several angry commuters have already vented their rage on XC's Facebook page. Nothing as yet on Twitter. I expect the page admins will be shocked and call a crisis meeting with managers. I can't actually work out if your post is serious!! Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: EBrown on April 15, 2012, 00:27:45 Nothing as yet on Twitter. I see a couple. :)Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: JayMac on April 15, 2012, 07:39:32 Several angry commuters have already vented their rage on XC's Facebook page. Nothing as yet on Twitter. I expect the page admins will be shocked and call a crisis meeting with managers. Really? Then I must be reading a different CrossCountry Facebook page than you. Just three comments about Richard Gibson and the guardian article. One of which is from me. All measured and merely questioning. So, no rage vented and nothing shocking. Just concern. Plenty of people questioning Richard Gibson's comments on Twitter as well. Try the hash tag #crosscountry. Your usual hyperbole Btline, which, as always, is misguided at best. Made up at worst merely to provoke reaction, which is very close to trolling and damn annoying. >:( Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Btline on April 15, 2012, 13:41:55 I see a couple. :) Plenty of people questioning Richard Gibson's comments on Twitter as well. Try the hash tag #crosscountry. Not very clued up on Twitter! Yes, I can see that there is a huge amount of anger on Twitter too. Interesting how this will pan out next week... I expect managers will have to really think up a good way of getting out of this one! I think it is serious as it will damage XC's reputation even further. ::) Isn't that an oxymoron? :P ;DTitle: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: JayMac on April 15, 2012, 14:52:19 There's a chance to quiz XC's top brass tomorrow (Monday 16th April 2012). They are holding an online 'Meet the Manager' session on their Facebook page from 5pm-8pm.
Quote Meet the Manager on Facebook with CrossCountry Do you have a burning question, a point to make or perhaps some praise for CrossCountry? Well now is the chance to air your views on the issues that matter. Between 5pm and 8pm on Monday 16th April, Managing Director Andy Cooper and members of his management team will be LIVE on Facebook to answer your questions. If you^re unable to join Andy and the team on Monday, then do post your questions here in advance and we^ll answer each one on Monday evening. https://www.facebook.com/Crosscountrytrains I intend to ask one or two questions.... Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: EBrown on April 15, 2012, 14:59:04 I intend to ask one or two questions.... Could you possibly provide a transcript of your questions/answers please?Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: JayMac on April 15, 2012, 15:17:52 I'll screengrab what I post and the replies (if any!)
I don't intend to be contentious and risk XC censoring. But awkward questions may get removed so screengrabs are the best way to go, although all Q&As should be visible on XCs Facebook page. Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: EBrown on April 15, 2012, 15:40:44 I'll screengrab what I post and the replies (if any!) I'm not a Facebook user and I keep being asked to "Log In" - Which is quite irritating.I don't intend to be contentious and risk XC censoring. But awkward questions may get removed so screengrabs are the best way to go, although all Q&As should be visible on XCs Facebook page. Thank-you. :) Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Btline on April 15, 2012, 16:05:47 Thanks BNM for offering to ask Qs- good idea to take screenshots too. I expect the minute shocked XC staff log on tomorrow, they'll quickly start deleting posts! >:(
For the benefit of non FB users: one disgruntled person has asked about the (lack of) Wifi, despite it being a franchise commitment. Another commuter, desperate for a seat, has asked whether they'll be more HSTs in the future. (I expect the blunt answer will be "no") And many more about the Guardian: The words "disgraceful" and "worrying" are used, as well as a request for Richard to "explain" himself. ;D Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: LiskeardRich on April 15, 2012, 19:46:32 One of the posts on xc wall was mine, think its obvious which to members, as my name on here is almost same as my facebook name.
Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: paul7575 on April 16, 2012, 11:27:57 I intend to ask one or two questions.... 1. Can you please confirm that all relevant members of your staff are familiar with the Nation Rail conditions of carriage, specifically section 19... 2. Can you also please confirm that all relevant members of your staff are familiar with the Advance Fares FAQs in the 'retail manual'... 3. Can you now please confirm if your communications director is a relevant member of your staff? ;D ;D Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on April 16, 2012, 11:53:46 Just to clarify on my post it was a poor attempt at humour and was a nearly identical post on one I had put on the forum previously on the same topic, probably wasn't a good idea as no one remembered me being shot down last time :(
Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: eightf48544 on April 16, 2012, 14:14:46 Like your Question Paul
Wonder if they will pick up any of your questions let us know. Perhaps he should be retrained as a booking clerk and then made redundant under Mc Naulty. I thought the whole article was appaling. No blame on CC, we don't set part of the fare, if you are unhappy with the fare structure/conditions (which he seemed to have got wrong) talk to ATOC. In fact as far as I can see he didn't actually answer any of the questions posed? Funily enough in another part of of Saturday's Guardian there was an article on how it pays companies to be kind to their customers, by going out of the way to provided goos service little gifts etc. Just think if the railways handed out vouchers on any train that was stutorily late to save you having to write in for them. If they were made cashable at the booking office you could either get your money back or buy another journey. Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: JayMac on April 16, 2012, 18:11:44 My opening gambit:
"Do you stand by the comments made by your Head of Communications, Richard Gibson in The Guardian on Saturday? Particularly with reference to the use of multiple tickets for a journey?" The reply and my follow up: (http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/xcmtm.jpg) Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Btline on April 16, 2012, 19:42:35 ;D ;D
Good stuff - keep it up. Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: Btline on April 16, 2012, 19:54:13 Won't have a chance of getting onto FB. Can people momitor what other answers are given in case they're deleted. Esp to do with the running of HSTs.
Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: JayMac on April 16, 2012, 20:19:58 No answers were given regarding the running of HSTs, despite two questions asked about them.
Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: JayMac on May 02, 2012, 21:20:10 The latest RAIL magazine (695) features an article about the guardian story.
RAIL spoke to Richard Gibson (XC Head of Communication), and he admitted he was given incorrect information about split Advances Purchase tickets by his Customer Relations team. Not quite a mea culpa and does rather smack of buck passing. RG is Head of Communication, he really should've consulted XC's Fares Manager before responding. OK, he may've been put on the spot during the telephone interview, but better, surely, to check and double check, rather than rely on 'Customer Relations'. My dealings with various TOCs' Customer Relations teams do rather show how little they know about ticket validities and the rules regarding split ticketing. Title: Re: Rip-off Britain: why is everything so expensive? (The Guardian) Post by: old original on May 02, 2012, 23:10:58 same Richard Gibson that was part of Wessex Trains several years ago??
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