Great Western Coffee Shop

1A83 10:00 Penzance-Paddington, arrived at Exeter with leading power car dead, OEO (one engine only) and struggling to build air.

0Z70 (2 x Powercars on test) were on their way up from Laira behind, and were used to couple up to the front and assist as far as Reading at max 75mph.  Service left EXD 84 late and caped at Reading 120 late  :o.

So, are we talking about a HST set with three power cars up front (forward, back, forward) and one in rear? Would love to see a picture of that....!

Correct.

There is a photo on Facebook of the 3 together, but it's not mine to repost at present.

could you link to it?

Did the combo not have a barrier vehicle ?

Would not need it, the HST's have 2 rescue drawbars for use at the cab (nose) end, one to couple HST power car to power car (ie cab end to cab end) the other for HST power car cab end to locomotive, I am not sure if the HST still have working through control jumper sockets at the cab end they certainly had them when I was an apprentice (1977).  HST power cars need a barrier vehicle at the non cab end to couple to locomotive because HST's  have fix buckeye couplings and no buffers, unlike loco hauled stock where the buckeye coupling can be lowered to expose the drawbar (hook) and have buffers

According to a report on the "Google Uk Rail" forum and I quote
"1A83 (http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/C21049/2011/12/12) was failed
at Exeter St Davids this afternoon.(yesterday April 10th).Rather than turf everyone off "they"
decided to run the train on towards London.They procured a back to back
pair of power cars from Laira, attached them on the front and set off for
London.   So we had 43087 43144 dragging 43124 LA06 43163".
 Can anyone confirm this.

Confirmed!

Couple of youtube videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N8ABM-hrl8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDS6DNtVWSk

Usual practise would have been to cancel the train at Exeter and run ECS towards London for repair, however, the train had already been overtaken by one HST and was still full and standing!!

Cancelled at Reading to facilitate getting the set onto OOC easier without having the good powercars useless on the blocks at Paddington.

Nice leisurely lunch for anyone in the Pullman Restaurant on that one!  ;D

Am I correct in assuming that the 75 mph speed limit on that train was down to the use of the emergency bar coupler between the "power twin" and the train? Presumably they're designed for relatively short distance, low-speed rescue operations rather than prolonged running at linespeed?

A link to a picture a mate took of the combo at Reading:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=339344156122622&set=a.279222418801463.71085.100001411201001&type=1&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=339344156122622&set=a.279222418801463.71085.100001411201001&type=1&theater)

I would've loved to have seen this, but was in Bristol at the time :(

Thanks ... but I think to follow that link you have to be a Facebook mate of your mate.  I'm married and we have pretty strong rules about mating in our household ;) - is there an alternative link direct to the image

The 75 mph would be the limit of the emergency drawbar, I don't recall (30 plus years since my training on HST's so memory is faded ... a lot) a duration limit for the emergency drawbar, it is a sturdy bit of kit

And bloody heavy!  There are two types in each power car, a short one for use when a loco is hauling a HST, and a long one for use when HST's are being coupled cab to cab.  The shorter is the heaviest!

I thought the max speed was that allowed by the slowest vehicle in the formation.  I assumed 2 x Powercars running on their own are restricted to 75mph?

This is my belief as well.

Restricting the speed of 2 power cars on their own (effectively 2 light engines) has to do with breaking force much the same as a single light loco has a max speed of 45mph.  The train if I can remember my train breaking stuff provides 80% of the breaking force (I'll really must dig my collage notes out of the loft  :o ) the combo in this thread was "working a train" so breaking force is not an issue the drawbar I suspect is the limiting factor here.

I've seen a couple of odd combinations recently. A few weeks ago, an HST DMU came through Melksham; power car at either end, and just two coaches between them. I'd like to think they were trialling the future of the line when HSTs go out of service and they start looking for alternative uses for the stock :)

Then yesterday I was having lunch in Chippenham and saw a full-length HST on the down line with Coach A in the middle. I'm fairly sure I've seen train buffs mention before that it's not possible, as Coach A has to be connected to a power car; so I'm not robustly defending my corner here - just saying what I'm certain I saw.

I think I must have been at Reading when I saw what I believed to be a 9 car hst ..from memory there were the normal 2 first class carriages, a restaurant car, a standard class carriage then another coach A then the normal standard coaches. Maybe this was the same diagram you describe Phil? I'm not an insider so apologise if this is the wrong use of the term "diagram" here :)

Last summer, and possibly the summers before, there was a nine car HST on the Saturdsy morning service to Newquay. The rear carriage was used solely for the movement of luggage - mainly surfboards. I was there one Saturday when the driver pulled up at the usual eight coach marker and the rear coach was off the platform. Meant dispatching the train in the normal way only for it to pull forward a coach length and then depart after all the paraphernalia was loaded.

I understand the train started from Bristol St Philips Marsh and ran to London from Hereford as a nine car before going to Newquay.

....in the old days adding an extra coach to an HST formation used to be a convenient way of moving spare coaches between depots. Of course now you avoid track access charges by not running ECS around  ::)

The oddest HST working I've ever seen was back in the late 80's.

It was a service from Plymouth, going East, working Front Power car then the 7 or 8 trailers.

Must have been a working Front Power car as the TGS was the Rear vehicle with Flashing Battery tail lamp.

No rear power car NO Barrier vehicle!

Oh for a Camera.  >:(

I'm sure it was a service train, but may have been bound for Laira.

And before anyone says thats Not allowed this was when it was still BR when sense was more important than Stupidity.

And the shortest ever HST to carry passengers:

http://www.luxsoft.demon.co.uk/village/hst.html

 ;D

An interesting read, thanks for sharing.

:)

There was me thinking it would be that 2+1 combo that ran from Oxford to Didcot a few years ago for a power car naming. But putting all the pax in the rear powercar is impressive!

Not as obvious from the outside as three power cars but there's at least one set running round with a first class coach labelled up as coach D.

It is the second time I have come across it and on both occasions no PA announcement has been made about it being declassified and no signs in the coach either.  Result - hardly anyone sits in it!

Not sure what they do about reservations as there are fewer seats than the conventional coach D.

It was on the 18:30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare tonight.

There was a very similar move a few weeks/months ago following a problem with an HST on the GWML: the train was eventually divided in service, passengers moved and the unaffected front portion worked to Swindon, I think, where it was terminated.

I've once enjoyed Penzance - Newton Abbot in a declassified coach, most enjoyable. Nobody seemed to believe me when I mentioned it wasn't actually first class! Shame!

It did indeed http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10198.msg105952#msg105952 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10198.msg105952#msg105952)

Not of any special interest, but I was amused to see this while I was waiting for my train home to Nailsea at Bristol Temple Meads yesterday:

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8434/009bcd.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/009bcd.jpg/)