Great Western Coffee Shop

Main points can be found in the link below.
http://www.irug.ik.com/pub/customersites/communitykit/son-041201201430.nsf/0/9361007282272B628025727F007C8FE3?OpenDocument

Quotes :

"Mike said he had influenced the decision to strengthen the train formations in the Bristol/Bath area."

"Mike said it was difficult to fully assess the needs for strengthening stock in other areas until the full complement of units is up and running but said that the finger from the DfT is firmly pointing at the TOC,s."

From Ivybridge Rail Users Group :

Just had the figures for usage at the station. From April 2006 to Apr 2007- 60,296 journeys were made. This shows an increase from the previous year from 48,564. This is despite losing 6 services per day. However a word of caution; more diligent ticketing and checking procedures including ticket barriers at Plymouth station have added to this figure as train guards were often apathetic in their fares collection. The group estimate as much as 20% of ticket revenue was lost in journeys from Ivybridge before this.

Ticket barriers at Plymouth have definately helped raise passenger numbers at Ivybridge. Would think the same can be said for Saltash/St.Germans??

Lee

No figures yet. I'll ask Julian Crow.

There will be less effect because of the ticket barriers at Plymouth because many travelling to Dockyard, Keyham and Devonport are still not collected on a very regular basis. I am also sure the loss of two out of 3 morning stopping trains from December will have had a huge impact, not to mention the month long fiasco of HST's not stopping at either Saltash or St Germans. For westbound commuters there was no return service from St Austell or Truro between December and May, so many have abandoned for cars and will take time to come back.

I would say April 06 to December 06 Numbers up but through to April 07 Numbers down, but not sure how we can find that out?

On another note, I have been selected for the FGW Custromer Panel to cover Saltash to Lostwithiel.

Regards
Richard

Thanks for that insight and congratulations on your appointment.

This extremely forward - looking group is having a recruitment drive. Anyone interested in becoming a member should enquire through the website guestbook page (link below.)
http://www.irug.ik.com/pub/customersites/communitykit/son-041201201430.nsf/va_viewForumEntries?OpenView&l=Guestbook&pub/customersites/communitykit/son-041201201430.nsf

It would be fairly easy to reinstate the early Dockyard train in my opinion, but no doubt there is a reason why it cant be done. My idea would be:

There are currently three units kept on Plymouth Laira overnight. One two car class 150 which does the first two Tamar Valley trips then through to Newquay. Then theres two single car class 153 units, the first goes empty to Liskeard the other sits at Plymouth to work the 09:34 Plymouth to Gunnislake.

Why not run the two class 153s empty as a pairing to Liskeard (train runs as 05:14 Laira to Liskeard arrive 05:51). Split the units in the yard, one takes up its Looe duty. The other forms a 06:40 all stations to Plymouth following the Golden Hind which could be used to travel from further west and change at Liskeard into the new 06:40. This would be the same as what was the 06:14 ex Par in the pre December timetable and connect at Plymouth into the 07:25 VT departure. Would give all the Dockyard workers their train back.

So why cant this be done? Queue list of reasons from FGW..........

"Not enough units"

What would loadings be like on an hourly Newton Abbot-Penzance working calling: Totnes, Ivybridge, Plymouth, Devonport, Dockyard, Keyham and all station to Penzance.

Would be useful to provide a connection from Torbay and could follow a faster long distance train which could ommit certain stops to change onto the unit.

Here is the first from Alison Forster :

Many thanks for your helpful suggestion.

I am aware of the customer and stakeholder desire to see the former early morning service from Par to Plymouth restored to the timetable, and do agree that running a service from Liskeard to Plymouth would cover the great majority of the former demand.

The real difficulty however, is not so much the availability of resource, but the actual economics of the service, particularly if additional train crew diagrams were needed to run it. This train was not included in the franchise specification, and to re-introduce it would almost certainly incur a loss.

That said, we have already agreed with stakeholders that we will review the economics of re-introducing the service, to see what may or may not be feasible.

Thanks once again for your helpful suggestion.

Kind Regards

Alison Forster
Managing Director

There is more , from the FGW Customer Service Team :

Thank you for your email of 20 June 2007 and for your suggestions for re-instating an early morning service at 06.40 between Liskeard and Plymouth primarily to serve the workers travelling to the Dockyard.

Your comments and suggestions have been logged and forwarded to the Managers responsible for the planning of our services for their consideration. We welcome suggestions from our customers about the way we can improve the service we offer and although I am unable to say that all of the suggestions that we receive can be put in place, we will certainly give consideration to the proposals that you have made.

Thank you once again for contacting First Great Western with your views.

A trial stop has been carried out at Ivybridge station by an FGW HST unit (link below.)
http://www.irug.ik.com/pub/customersites/communitykit/son-041201201430.nsf/0/A1B8F21CA25A2CDA8025736700731CFF?OpenDocument

Along with Dawlish Warren, Starcross, Bruton, Frome, Trowbridge, Bradford and many more

HST's have stopped at Dawlish Warren previously.

When Yate station was re-opened in 1987 as two car sprinter length platforms we had HST's stopping. This was achieved by placing an HST STOP marker board south of the station at the point where the front power car should come to a stand. If an HST was in its normal formation with First Class at the front then the rear two carriages were platformed and passengers were told to make their way to the rear two coaches of the train as Yate station was a short platform. When the train was in the reveres formation then the First Class was at the rear, the passengers were asked to make their way to the front of the train for the stop at Yate.

I dont see any reason why any station with a platform face less than the length of an HST shouldnt have HSTs call provided such markers as I have described are in place. Selective door opening, well that be a solution too.

I can recall the times when trains were often too long for platforms, they didn't have PA systems on the coaches then and trains used to 'draw forward' when passengers had alighted and boarded at the front of the train so that passengers in the rear carriages of the train could alight, Bath Spa stations down platform being a case in point where the platform is only long enough for nine coaches but regularly Friday night services were then comprised of 11/12 coaches and I have even been on a London - Bristol service which had 15 coaches on. Them were the days of real trains.

Fine, but its obvious (to me?!) that HSTs (long distance services) are going to replace local services!  I am sure it will be marketed as opening up through opportunities between Ivybridge and London, but on the other hand, wouldnt it really be replacement of the local service with one that is already running but with local stops?!  Yours cynically!!

....and BTW..... what was the conclusion with regards to the stop at Ivybridge?

Maybe now they have SDO they could divert an HST service via Melksham on a daily basis to give a better service? over to you grahme!

Good idea:

But:

It would have to come from Westbury - most trains from the WoE are too busy to go that route as it would generally require them to run it fast from Melksham - reading which I can't see them doing. Perhaps if (like Frome) there was a morning and evening service that called
Potential Taunton start
Castle Cary (?)
Bruton(?)
Frome
Westbury
Trowbridge
Melksham
Chippenham (replacing path of the 0640 from Bristol allowing the 0710 to run again as BPW needs the extra train)
Swindon
Didcot Parkway
Reading
Slough (if timings allowed)
London

Same applies on the return these both reducing the need for a unit in the morning/evening and perhaps a unit around 12-1400

or a Westbury to Pad using a Turbo????

From the FGW website :

14:24 Gunnislake to Newton Abbot due 15:53
This train will be terminated at Plymouth.It will no longer call at: Ivybridge, Totnes and Newton Abbot.This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.

15:56 Newton Abbot to Plymouth due 16:39
This train has been cancelled.This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.

17:35 Penzance to London Paddington due 23:36
This train has been revised.It will additionally call at: Lostwithiel, St Germans, Saltash and Ivybridge.




From the FGW website, due to the earlier unit being cancelled, bet they'll be stopping a few London's at Ivybridge now!

It was also put to stop at Salisbury, but that was obviously an error.

From the FGW website (29/12/2007) :

06:04 Penzance to Barnstaple due 10:20
This train will be terminated at Plymouth and restarted from Exeter St Davids.It will no longer call at: Ivybridge, Totnes and Newton Abbot.This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable.

Were any extra stops in other services made, because if not, Ivybridge passengers faced a 3-hour wait for the next train......

Today the 16.54 Plymouth-Padd stopped in!

Twas pure luxury IMO  :D

From the FGW website :

10:23 Gunnislake to Exeter St Davids due 12:34

This train will be terminated at Plymouth.It will no longer call at: Ivybridge, Totnes, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Dawlish, Dawlish Warren, Starcross, Exeter St Thomas and Exeter St Davids.This is due to a train fault.

That leaves nearly a 5 and a half hour gap in trains towards Newton Abbot for Ivybridge passengers.

10:23 Gunnislake to Exeter St Davids due 12:34

This train has been reinstated.

Good move, FGW  ;D

It ran 20 minutes late off Plymouth though!

I would have thought that FGW would have stopped an HST/another service to fill the gap.

That's what Central Trains/London Midland would have done!

From the FGW website :

15:00 Plymouth to London Paddington due 18:19
This train has been revised.It will additionally call at: Ivybridge.This is due to a delay on a previous journey.

SDO?

Yes.

At that time of day I would imagine it was the SWT service that didn't run? the 1447 to Waterloo.

No, the SWT service ran about 25 minutes late.

17 minutes late off Plymouth due to a delay in the Newton Abbot area on the previous journey, waited 6 mins at Ivybridge. Was cancelled at Salisbury for the Salisbury - London and a 1Z ran.

Another Ivybridge HST stop today (19/04/2008) :

11:05 London Paddington to Plymouth due 15:04
This train has been revised.It will additionally call at: Ivybridge.

Due to the SWT service being cancelled due to unavailable traincrew...

1504 Plymouth to Paddington also called.

What an outrage. South West Trains should have the franchise stripped this instance! I will be doing a fare strike too!

 :D

Me too........  :D :D :D :D

*resists from posting something*

Got a mate to check up the actual reason, apparently there was a balls up in the rostering for this weekend as we're operating to STP schedules due to the engineering works between Basingstoke and Woking. Turns out they gave a guard a job - and he apparently didn't sign Plymouth! Don't know why they didn't pick it up earlier....  :D

Don't suppose Swindon do their rosters too!!!

Not cooked up enough for that are they?

From Ivybridge Rail Users Group (link below) :
http://www.irug.ik.com/news/6367110450.ikml

Good news.

Trains are as follows(from Plymouth):

0945 (ex PNZ), Via Bristol to London
1200 (ex PNZ), to London (often full and standing arriving into Plymouth)
1656 (new timing?) to London (often full and standing arriving into Plymouth during summer as starts Newquay)

From London:
0905 (to PLY/NQY) often full and standing during Summer
1405 (to PNZ)
2035 (to PLY)

Personally, I'd stop the following: (approx times)
0730 from London (1025 from Ivybridge) to PNZ
1105 from London (1425 from Ivybridge) to PLY
1305 from London (1610 from Ivybridge) to PLY (PNZ summer)
1605 from London (1910 from Ivybridge) to PNZ

0945 from Plymouth (PNZ 0745) (1001 Ivybridge) to London via Bristol
1255 from Plymouth (1311 Ivybridge) to London stopping B&H
1500 from Plymouth (1516 Ivybridge) to London
1803 from Plymouth (PNZ 1556) (1819 Ivybridge) to London

The 10:00 Penzance-Paddington is probably the busiest of the day, it is stupid stopping it at Ivybridge.
How did they find the timings anyway?

Presumably FGW gave them some proposed times ;)

1305 from London would be good though - if the Ivybridge group reads this - lobby for that stopping as it would provide that lost 1610 service from Ivybridge for the school  :D

It is bad news IMO.

HSTs should not be calling at Ivybridge. >:(

How much longer will journey times be this year? The fact that one of them comes from Penzance makes it worse.

HST = InterCity - the only exceptions are Ox-Wor and Penz-Plym.

Other than that, it is InterCity stops only.

What has happened to all the local DMUs? ??? Yes, I know SWT are withdrawing them, but surely their FGW replacements could stop?

Its a waste of money running half of the Ivybridge trains, so its far more sensible just to stop and HST. Besides, knock a few mins slack off the TT and you will arrive at the same time anyway!

Btline, find the DMU stoppers and they all stop, they just aren't very often. The HST's replace SWT services.

>:(

No, I think it is brilliant. You can't put long distance customers coming off a 159 on a 150.
So it is.  ;D

The way I read the IRUG link, and going by the Ivybridge stop times quoted, it looks like the HST stops are replacing FGW DMU stops from December 2008.

I am awaiting clarification on that, though.

 ???I think there appears to be some selfishness from some members. Don't begrudge the fact that some HST's will be stopping at Ivybridge because if they don't we will most likely lose services. It only adds on 2 or 3 minutes to a journey to London, in the scheme of things that's nothing. The argument should be for FGW to provide more services.

Definatly, Ivybridge should have HST's to London, but they should also have more regular DMU's which are currently very irregular.

I am certainly not wishing to deprive Ivybridge of services! I think the cuts proposed in the past were dreadful.

However, Ivybridge is a smaller station. It therefore should not be called at by "InterCity" trains!

More DMUs should stop. What about a Newton Abbot to Newquay/Ginnislake service every two hours calling at all statoins, alternating at Plymouth to go to either Newquay or Guinisslake?

The journey time of HSTs are too long at the moment, and stopping trains here will mean that more SDO will be used (the stops will not be reliable!).

please do not call me selfish. I could, in a way, call residents of Ivybridge selfish for making HSTs call!

But I suppose, HSTs are better than nothing.....

Well, I think you going to have al lot of complaints putting Gunnislake and Newquay to a four hourly service.

There should be a Plymouth-Newton Abbot shuttle and Gunnislake and Newquay should have dedicated units.

HST journey times are not too long at all, they are good from Plymouth, SDO doesn't take that long down in Cornwall, they are good at it.

And the trains stopping at Ivybridge are the slower services already.

HST's are the best thing for Ivybridge.

Ivybridge is like Saltash, been neglected as a smaller station but in reality they serve very large areas.

Intercity trains in Devon and Cornwall are most stations to Exeter then pretty fast to London.
There traffic is from all the stations not Penzanc Plymouth and Exeter. The train would be very un profitable doing that, Intercity in Cornwall is inter city to London not intercity in Cornwall.

I know how much you opposed the originally proposed cuts, Btline, and I do see the point you are trying to make.

A couple of comments, though.

I'm not sure its a case of Ivybridge residents "making" HST's call. I think we need to wait for further details to emerge regarding the background to the December 2008 timetable proposals.

On your idea of linking Ivybridge/Gunnislake services, it is interesting that the current service does that to a certain extent.

I agree with mjthomson. The argument should be for FGW to provide more services overall for Ivybridge, in whatever provision mix works out best.

PS - Newquay/Guinislake would have extra services as well! ;)

I beg to differ. To say that a town with a population of 12,000  over 150 miles from London "should" have a service to London is to confuse the issue. What Ivybridge needs is a decent service to Plymouth and Exeter. If that's achieved by stopping a few services to and from London for operational convenience or economy then so be it, although I think some of the other comments show the downsides of having express services to London calling at smaller stations. But I don't think you could ever run a railway on the basis of towns that size needing a service to London.       

The Gunnislake service currently requires two units to operate the GSL-NTA/EXD services to serve Ivybridge, from Dec 2008 the Gunnislake will be a deddicated unit, as all services will be PLY-GSL thus freeing up a unit, this unit is then going to be used to operate SEVEN trains per day to Newquay from Par, basicly giving Cornwalls second largest town a proper service for the first time in over TWENTY YEARS! in principal i'm against HST's stopping at these small stations on London services but in this case i'm all for it, Newquay is LONG overdue a decent train service and FGW should be given a medal for finally doing this, afterall, none of their predecessors have ever given Newquay a second glance!

So according to you John, stopping trains at St.Erth is out of the question.
That has a poulation of 1384 and that is in the parish.
As are Hayle, Redruth, Par, Lostwithiel, Bodmin and Liskeard.
I can tell you that Redruth, Bodmin and Liskeard have some of the highest loadings in cornwall on Lodon trains and they have populations of 12,000 or less.
And they are further away from London than Ivybridge.

I think that some of the Cornish HST's should be sped up a bit, and some should be very limited stop in Cornwall, the 1000 from Pnz should be Pnz, SER, TRU, SAU, PAR (for the connection from NQY) BOD, LSK, PLY, RDG and PAD, this train is often full from Truro anyway!

The 10:00 from Penzance is a very busy train for day passengers as well though. You can't put all them on a single 150.
A lot of people get off at Truro on most up services.

There should be another stopper after it at 1020 (like it used to be) then an 1055, which is currently an HST which only runs in the summer at the moment, but could be a DMU in winter and an HST in summer. currently the 1036 unit makes a London connection at Plymouth but if the 1055 ran all year then this service could be used by daytrippers as it wouldn't be full of people going long distance.

Not at all. It's a question of pragmatism and geography. The cornish services are clearly acting as local services by the time they get deep into the county. But "should" implied right. I don't think Nailsea, Yatton, Worle "should" have a direct train service to London given their size and location. It's great that they do, but it's more geography and operational convenience that has given us the service we have, and for which I am extremely grateful. Likewise Ivybridge needs a good service, but it doesn't have to be a London service.

Out of interest, how do you know that the passengers using the services from those stations are travelling to London, and are not local passengers? Or maybe they are local passengers on services which just happen to start/finish at London, who would be just as well served by a local service of appropriate capacity? 

The Ivybridge Rail Users Group AGM will be held on the 22 May 2008, at Ivybridge Town Hall, 7.30pm start.

The case with Ivybridge is a difficult one - surprisingly similar to Melksham in many respects.

Ivybridge is ideally deserving of units calling only - certainly not HSTs as it puts up to 5 minutes into a trains schedule, not good in this world of speeding up services.

Melksham is a similar case as it's difficult to get trains through Melksham as they come off the core services by doing that - Ivybridge is exactly the same. There may be a better case for an enhanced service to Ivybridge if there were more stations between Newton Abbot and Plymouth - giving there a potential for an hourly or two hourly unit stopping service.

I personally feel the ideal way of providing Cornwall with an ample service would be a two hourly Exeter St Davids to Penzance shuttle service, Newquay - Gunnislake services and each other branch line having its own shuttle for itself. This is then of course interspersed with the HSTs that run - however the stopping unit service would allow these services to be sped up en route.

Here, Here! But not just Ivybridge. I'm delighted to read about Newquay prospects too.  Three more things to throw into the mix ...

a) Is there a "Park and Ride" market from South Devon to Reading and London / is that likely to be well (and lucratively) developed by the calling of 125s West of Newton Abbot?

b) It has always struck me that where you have a single station through which fast trains pass, with a local service that sometimes runs within a few minutes of it, you have a potential waste of resources, and an opportunity to develop an extra bustling railhead by providing a good slew of longer distance trains.  In my (untutored) mind, this is not unique to Ivybridge - there are one or two other cases.

c) How do the finances work our for extra Newquay services?  Swlines has done a Melksham comparison (which I will look at further in a moment) and indeed Melksham and Newquay have similar winter populations.  Will FGW make a profit, are they being subsidised, or doing it out of the goodness of their hearts?


There are indeed some surprising similarities - but some differences too.

With Ivybridge, you have other trains providing a good service connecting stations to the West and East - Plymouth to Totnes, to Newton Abbot.  However, Melksham should read VIA Melksham - services between stations either side, which are much larger towns that Melksham - are diabolical.  You can travel from Chippenham to Salisbury at 06:30 and 19:00 ... only ... and there is no direct train back at all. You can travel from Trowbridge to Swindon at 07:08 and 19:41 ... only ... with return trains at 06:15 and 18:45 only. And, please note, I have just mentioned the five largest population centres in Wiltshire!.  On various evidence and projections, only a quarter of the traffic on a TransWilts service via Melksham would actually board or leave at that station; putting that another way, Melksham has a population of around 24000 ... but the train service putting the Wilsthire area together should be specified for a population of 96000.

Actually, the Newquay comparison has some surprising similarities too, But once again the difference there is that Newquay is the only major population centre on the line, whereas Melksham is via Melksham.  It gives me huge hope to see a decent timetable for Newquay if the reports are correct, to include peak hour service too (?).  It gives me huge hope because if Andrew Haines, Julian Crow and others can do this for Newquay then surely Andrew Haines, Andrew Griffiths, Malcolm Drury and others can do it for the TransWilts!

To avoid this running off topic, I have crossposted ...

http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7466.0

where TransWilts follow ups may folllow  ;D

You can look at the reservations.
St.Erth, Redruth, Bodmin Parkway and Liskeard have lots of reservations to and from London, they are probably some of the biggest boarding places for London.

Btline, SDO is far more reliable than you actually make out!

This is a welcome move, as the Ivybridge trains are either too full (ex Bristol) or too empty (ex Newton Abbot) so on the services quoted there should be adequate capacity, apart from the 1001 PNZ-PAD which is in 1 word.

a RIOT!

That's two words.  ;)

Technically 'a' is a letter  ;)

SDO is a pain in the arse, as you gotta return to the panel you started at to lock back up!

Sorry, the sooner SDO is banned the better (and I mean trains just stopping minus H&S)!

------

Great to hear about Newquay!

------

There should be roughly 2 tph in Cornwall. 1 an express either FGW to London or XC to the North (alternating),  1 a local, which stops everywhere.

------

Similar situation in Devon. 2 tph as expresses, then perhaps 1 as a local.

Cornwall doesn't need 2 tph. 2tph 06:00-10:00 and 16:00-20:00 leaving Penzance and Plymouth. 1tph the other times. HST's mainly with DMU's filling in the gaps.

Sorry to query it, Jim, but is that actually right?


Irrespective of that, though, I do agree - SDO is a right pain in the @rse!  ::) ;D

Not true, most sets have now been modified now in preparation for SDO 2 where the TM has to release doors behind, key out, walk to the rear, key in, lock doors and dispatch from rear!
As for Newquay, this is well overdue, lets not forget at least one potentially busy intermediate station, Bugle, Newquay's population also quadruples during summer, also, as far as i'm aware, FGW are not getting any funding for the additional services from Dec, a stark contras tfrom the timetable proposed by the DFT who wanted the service reduced to just TWO trains per day, one stopper and one HST all year round, this would have meant that the intermediate stations at Luxulyan (which also has no bus service), Bugle, Roche, St Columb road and Quintrell Downs would have been left with only one train per day!

Must be a new mod then!

Vacman, thanks for the info on exactly how SDO2 can operate. Is that the way it will have to be done, or can the TM choose to return to the same panel?

There is significant scope, imo, for a park & ride scheme to Newquay from the A30 being set up in the area (St. Columb Rd-St. Dennis Junction-Roche) where the branch runs close to the road. I think that an increased level of service here could woo users back to the railway and maybe increase the chances of a rerouted branch to St. Austell.

As for Ivybridge, I'd have thought it would be better to have Plymouth-Paddington HSTs stopping at Ivybridge rather than Pz-Paddington ones, as 5 mins on a 3h journey is less painful than 5 mins on a 5 hour one. Those, coupled with Plymouth-Bristol/Exeter stoppers would seem a better way forward.
 

Do not forget that three hours is the magic time that a train journey must not go over if it is to get a town/city into the considered maximum travel time from London for Business.

There was a big hue and cry a short while ago when the three hour times from Plymouth were extended by extra stops between Exeter and Reading.

Reading earlier about size of places and train provision.

St.Erth only has the main line service because of the branch line with its surrounding population of St.Ives, Carbis bay etc etc. [especially true during the summer]

Redruth and Camborne are the most condensed areas of population in Cornwall.

Bodmin Parkway is a railhead for a large area of North Cornwall

The messages regarding the London-West timetable have been moved to here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2682.msg20382#new (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2682.msg20382#new)

My thanks to Andrew Pennington for providing the following, which is subject to further change, ongoing consultation and Network Rail validation :

I personnally think thats pretty good, much better eastbound morning service than under Wessex. Why are there SWT calls added as a note, thought these ceased in Dec08, or am I missing something??

SWT services cease from Dec '09 I think.

Related links.
http://www.irug.ik.com/news/6367105698.ikml

http://thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=141507&command=displayContent&sourceNode=257390&home=yes&more_nodeId1=257393&contentPK=20115860

From the FGW website :

14:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 19:24
This train has been revised.It will additionally call at: Ivybridge.

A summary of the AGM can be found in the link below.
http://www.irug.ik.com/news/6367114196.ikml

Ivybridge Rail Users Group article link.
http://www.irug.ik.com/news/6367121815.ikml

"Last-minute preparations are under way for next weekend's Filham Music Festival. Hundreds are expected to flock to Filham Park in Ivybridge on Saturday for one of the biggest music events the area has seen. There are still a few tickets available for the event which has been dubbed 'Glastonbury in the South Hams' and will see Plymouth's top bands and musicians taking to the stage."

See http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Festival-amazing/article-310551-detail/article.html

According to the FGW journey planner Ivybridge will have 3 up and 2 down HSTs stopping there from December.The up ones being the Ex plymouth 0945,1200,16.57 HSTs and the down ones being the 09.06,1606 ex Paddingtons HSTs.

1200 is completely unsuitable to be stopping additionally. On busy days it could do with being fast from Plymouth to Reading!!

That would make sense, missing Exeter at 1300ish!Not. ???

I don't know the metrics of this particular service and the surrounding ones ... but if a train IS already packed out, then there could be sense in missing out stops, could there not - displacing the intermediate station customer to slightly earlier / later and less overcrowded services, and giving a faster and more comfortable ride to the 12:00 passengers.

I am reminded by devon_metro'c comments of a time I looked at the London Underground map and wondered "why haven't they extended the Victoria line south further from Brixton".  The Northern line has a long tail to Morden, and I used to live out beyond Brixton in a highly populated ares, I wondered.   It turns out (I read elsewhere) that any extensions to the Victoria line would just throw even more trafiic at the line through London, which is already running at capacity - and that an extension would simply replace one problem (south of Brixton transport) with another (central congestion).   Along the same lines, I have to question local bypass proposals around here which - it would seem - may give some relief to one town but sponge other traffic into the area to the detriment of others.   All of which is getting a long way from the subject of cutting out Exeter stops   ;)

Reinstate the 1254 stopper to Paddinton!

Of course though, only on isolated days is it so busy.

Cutting Exeter stops on the GW line would be less of a problem if the LSWR line were upgraded.... ;)

Also the 20xx from Pad will be stopping at Ivybridge

Sorry missed that one so its 3 up and 3 down.

Quote from Ivybridge Rail Users Group (link below) :
http://www.irug.ik.com/news/6367130288.ikml

From the FGW website :

19:05 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 22:28

This train will be terminated at Plymouth.It will no longer call at: Ivybridge, Totnes, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Dawlish, Dawlish Warren, Starcross, Exeter St Thomas and Exeter St Davids.This is due to a train fault.

This obviously creates a gap for through passenger journeys as well.

I have heard FGW HSTs will be making more local stops. that started in the Bristol area last year, looks like Devon will be getting something similar then.  :)

Oh grrrreat, they could go for the record for the longest slowest possible journey from Penzance to Paddington, next it'll be bloody Keyham, Dockyard and St Budeaux!

I agree, it is bad news. And there is already a Padd - Bristol HST that stops at Keyham!!

How long are the West Country trains taking from December? - they need to get it BELOW 3 hrs to Plymouth to tempt business travellers out of planes and cars.

Welcome to the forum, DevonTrains2008 - and thanks for that information!

Do you happen to have a source that you could quote, by any chance?

I hope you mean Keynsham!

Fastest train PAD-PLY will be 3hrs3mins
Fastest Train PLY-PAD will be 3hrs

?

I meant the Key- station near Bristol, where is the other?

Ah - Keynsham, between Bristol and Bath, rather than Keyham, near Plymouth?  ;)

Keyham is between Plymouth and Saltash.

Whoops ;D .

No problem - it's a not uncommon confusion!  ;)

Keyham - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyham_railway_station

Keynsham - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynsham_railway_station

Actually, they're quite similar stations, in terms of their size - relative to an HST stopping at them!  ;) :D ;D

Hi there Chris,

I happen to know that HST's stop at Nailsea in the Bristol area, en route from Devon to London Paddington... I have also read in a rail magazine that HST's were making more Bristol stops.

Hope this is of some help

It says on Wikipedia Keyham already has very few FGW HST's stopping there

Think its gets one, the 0705 Plymouth - Penzance

Nope, there are no booked stops for HST's at Keyham, there aren't even that many "mainline" units that stop there, the only trains that really serve Keyham and the other plymouth suburbans are the Gunnislake services.

Oh dear, only 22 passengers per day last year at Keyham.

Hmm.  Well, I never said HSTs should stop at Keyham - and vacman clearly thinks they should not! ::) ;D

However, if I may go back a few posts: yes, HSTs started stopping (sorry, but you know what I mean!) at smaller stations such as Worle, Weston Milton, Nailsea & Backwell and Keynsham, some time ago.  At Nailsea, it's actually a great service - I can travel straight through to Paddington!

However, because of the shorter platforms at these stations, we had all the nonsense while introducing SDO - now resolved, thankfully.

Nevertheless, I think it's a serious concern at stations like, for example, Keyham, if there is in fact any intention to have HSTs stop there.  Just because they can (with SDO) doesn't mean they should!  ::)

Distorted figures! Keyham can be quite busy due to the nearby college, however, most people who travel there buy a ticket through to Plymouth.

Thanks, vacman!  ;)

So, would any HST services stopping there help with that passenger flow?

Not really, the majority of people seem to come from Bere Alston and Calstock.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Body-railway-line/article-1551929-detail/article.html

Is causing the cardiff to paddington services to be cancelled?

Probably this has led to a lot of rolling stock being displaced meaning there are not enough hst's in London to fulfill all requirements so certain services have to be cut back. I think they are probably making the best of a bad situation and canelling to the Cardiff-Paddington to reduce affects elsehwere across the networkas Cardiff can still be served by thehourly Swansea service

Indeed, this fatality has blocked the entire Plymouth HST stock at Plymouth, causing shortages across HST services. Cutting the Cardiff's releases a number of HSTs for use elsewhere.

It happened at about 05.00 this morning so nothing could leave Cornwall/Plymouth/Laira eastbound until about 09.30 hence a shortage of sets elsewhere

According to BBC Radio Devon it happened at Ivybridge.

I saw an empty HST rolling through Reading towards Paddington (running wrong-way on the track in the central reservation which stone trains usually use) around 2pm today. It had the Plymouth-Paddington stickers on the windows so I'd imagine it would have been one of the incorrectly placed trains heading back to a depot somewhere.

Looks pretty bad. Thoughts with the Cross Country driver and anybody else involved.

The circumstances of the incident meant that it took a very long time before the line was fully re-opened in both directions. As the HST's run over a wide range of routes during the days work it was sadly inevitable that a lot of disruption to long distance FGW services occurred.

Just shows what a chronic shortage of servicable rolling stock there is in the UK. (observation not a complaint)

Seemed to cause chaos this morning with knock on effects felt all over the network.

At one point a Swansea Paddington train was showing as being diverted via Temple Meads to pick up pax stranded by the cancellation of the 8am, though I'm not sure this happened. The 8.30am and 9am were cancelled as well I'm informed, so one of my colleagues took 2 1/2 hours to get from Yatton to Swindon.   

a body was found as is being treated as suspicious, rumour is that body parts were found in a plastic bin bag.

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16130099):

From the Plymouth Herald (http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/BODY-NEAR-RAILWAY-LINE/story-14113679-detail/story.html):

From thisisplymouth (http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Body-railway-line-missing-Plymouth-man-Keith/story-15155995-detail/story.html):