Title: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 11, 2012, 00:07:03 From thisisplymouth (http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Plymouth-MP-slams-city-s-rail-link-capital/story-15187674-detail/story.html):
Quote A task force behind a campaign to bring a ^94million boost to Plymouth's economy has been launched. The case for improved rail links between Plymouth and London comes as MP for Plymouth Moorview, Alison Seabeck slammed the current timetable as "ridiculous". The first London train currently reaches Plymouth at 11.17am ^ too late for business work according to the task force. Ms Seabeck was due to attend the launch of the campaign at Plymouth City Rail Station yesterday at 10.30am but could not be at the meeting due to the train times. "This illustrates perfectly why we need better connectivity between Plymouth and London. It is ridiculous that I am unable to travel to Plymouth in time for a meeting starting at 10:30am," she said. "Businesses have told me time and time again that if we want to attract business to Plymouth we need a regular and reliable train service, which will allow businesses to travel to the capital and back in a day." The MP's words were echoed by campaigners from the City Council, Chamber of Commerce and Plymouth University. David Parlby, Chief Executive of the Plymouth Chamber of Commerce and Industry, said: "We need to have a good and effective means of connecting with our investors in London and the rest of the country. "With the demise of the airport, rail service is the way to go. We have this opportunity to influence the selection for the new franchise. It is a rare opportunity that only comes up so often." Part of the campaign calls for three hour journeys between the two cities to start early and finish later. Professor David Wheeler, Dean of Plymouth Business School, said the link is vital for students and local business. "We are very keen to support the City Council and the Chamber of Commerce in ensuring Plymouth and the South West gets the best deal from the rail franchise. We have tens of thousands of students who also view this transportation as important. Rail links for the long term are going to be more important for business opportunity and economic development." The task force's campaign calls for businesses and individuals to get across the message that rail links are vital to the city and the region's growth. Campaigners will be telling ministers that for an annual extra investment of ^10 million into rail links between the city and London, the returns would be almost ten times the value. Ms Seabeck added: "The current consultation on the new 15-year franchise gives us a unique opportunity to ensure that we get the improvements we need to the rail service, after all it is estimated that these improvements will bring an estimated ^94 million a year to the local economy." As well as aiming for faster trains, a key demand is for better on-board facilities such as WIFI and continuous mobile coverage to enable the business community to work en-route. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Ollie on February 11, 2012, 00:22:22 I'm guessing this MP for Plymouth doesn't live that close to Plymouth if she couldn't get there for 10:30?
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 11, 2012, 00:40:05 She spends most of her time in London, according to her own website: see http://www.alisonseabeck.org.uk/about-alison :-X
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: JayMac on February 11, 2012, 02:00:57 Parliament is in London, so it's understandable she spends most of her working week there. I agree with her, 1117 is very late for the first arrival from London to a large city like Plymouth.
I suppose she could use the Night Riviera, but a 5am arrival isn't very practical either. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 11, 2012, 02:06:47 The 'comments' on that particular news article include some quite interesting suggestions, too ... ::)
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Henry on February 11, 2012, 09:59:20 Would a service leaving London at 0630 in the morning to arrive at Plymouth at 0930 be financially viable. How many people leaving London need to be in Plymouth at 0930 ?. (Could always run a 153). Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: grahame on February 11, 2012, 11:43:16 Would a service leaving London at 0630 in the morning to arrive at Plymouth at 0930 be financially viable. Logic says it would be likely to be viable. The 05:27, 05:36, 06:30 and 06:45 HST services off Paddington are all peak rather than off-peak fares [checked to Swindon], so there must be a demand there ;) and I can't imagine it being any different via the Berks and Hants. Mind you - there's only one fast line out of Paddington so you can't have an 06:30. How about an 06:15, giving time to add stops at Newbury and Westbury. Many of the very early services off Paddington load later into their journey rather that being full out from London as is the case later on, and there are significant flows west from Westbury. An 07:30 commuter train from there to Taunton and Exeter might be significant. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: devon_metro on February 11, 2012, 19:36:33 You can of course get the 0645 from Paddington and arrive in Plymouth at 10.46, by changing at BPW, just to provide some balance to the article.
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: JayMac on February 11, 2012, 19:41:50 Still of little use to the MP for her '10.30am meeting'
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: devon_metro on February 11, 2012, 21:15:21 Still of little use to the MP for her '10.30am meeting' Agreed, however the situation isn't quite as dire as the papers make out. In fact, leaving at 0706, changing at Newton Abbot gets you into Plymouth at 10.40. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: JayMac on February 11, 2012, 21:37:32 A tight 5 minute connection (is this one held if the ex London is a few minutes late?) with the last 40 minutes of that journey on a local DMU. Hardly attractive for business travellers.
I think that 0706 should be re-timed to depart at say 0615 (or thereabouts), with the same B&H stops but re-routed to Plymouth rather than Paignton. Arriving Plymouth around 0945-1000. If it can be pathed of course. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: jester on February 11, 2012, 22:00:42 Sorry hit the wrong button. would be ideal to run it all the way through to Pz, as the stopper from Exeter is always 'rammed' and in the summer even worse. From Plymouth it forms the first 'cheap day' train!
Mod note: Fixed double post. bignosemac Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: woody on February 12, 2012, 01:56:23 It is glaringly obvious as bignosemac says that 1117 is very late for the first direct daytime arrival from London to a large city like Plymouth which incidentally for those in Swindon who dont know is in Devon just 225 miles from London and not in the Scottish Highlands.It is a glaring example of why South West MPs are adament that the mistakes of the present Great Western franchise are not repeated in the next franchise.Changing trains at Newton Abbot onto a class 150 with no first class which then sloggs its way over the South Devon banks to eventually arrive in Plymouth at 10.41 is hardly an attractive alternative for a business traveller from London to Plymouth especially when Exeter and Torbay are already served by the direct 0706 HST from Paddington,indeed it is rediculous to suggest such.As for the sleeper alternative well has its place serving Cornwall maybe but given this is the 21st century and the only other sleeper services in Britain operating are the London/Scotland Caledonian sleeper trains to such far flung Scottish destinations as Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Fort William, Glasgow and Inverness which given the distances involved are understandable, but Plymouth/London which is only rail 225 miles from London!:Something very wrong there which MPs of all political persuasions now agree needs sorting as part of the next Great Western franchise specification.
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: grahame on February 12, 2012, 10:54:03 First arrivals for business travellers from London to various towns and cities are important - and here (following on from my final connection table (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10269.0) is a table of earliest current arrivals, leaving London on the first service in the morning (I've defined that as 5 a.m.). I've added in some more distant points this time, and the times shown are the arrivals at destination station.
See how Plymouth compares to other places ... in GW land and beyond 06:08 Didcot 06:22 Oxford 06:25 Swindon 06:38 Chippenham 06:47 Newbury 06:52 Bath 07:00 Southampton 07:07 Bristol Temple Meads 07:22 Bradford-on-Avon 07:22 Stroud 07:28 Trowbridge 07:33 Bristol Parkway 07:35 Westbury 07:44 Newport 07:45 Gloucester 07:47 Weston-super-Mare 07:49 Solihull 07:57 Poole 07:57 Yate 08:00 Cardiff 08:01 Cheltenham Spa 08:03 Salisbury 08:09 Warminster 08:14 Worcester Shrub Hill 08:24 Taunton 08:31 Avonmouth 08:44 Weymouth 08:57 Swansea 09:07 Hereford 09:08 Exeter 09:21 Stratford-upon-Avon 09:40 Frome 09:47 Paignton 09:50 Exmouth 09:53 Severn Beach 10:12 Yeovil (Pen Mill) 10:35 Barnstaple 10:41 Plymouth 10:43 Carmarthen 12:01 Truro 12:42 Penzance 12:44 Falmouth 12:48 Milford Haven 13:26 Fishguard Harbour 19:11 Melksham First and last trains have often been specified if SLC documents (the timetable service level that's required of a franchise operator), so there appears to be common ground that first and last times can be important. P.S. from King's Cross or Euston ... 08:01 Liverpool 08:13 Preston 08:23 Leeds 08:28 Manchester 09:43 Newcastle 10:31 Glasgow 11:04 Edinburgh 16:09 Fort William Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: eightf48544 on February 12, 2012, 16:29:24 Most at an astronomical price unless you can get an advanced.
Is Melksham Off Peak or evening peak? Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: grahame on February 12, 2012, 21:52:42 Is Melksham Off Peak or evening peak? It's a peak fare from Paddington to Melksham on the 17:45 (change at Swindon) If you travel on the 15:00 and change at Chippenham, that's super off peak and if you travel on the 16:30 and change at Chippenham, that's off peak (experts please confirm. At the least you could split at Chippenham) There is a very good coffee shop at Chippenham Station, run by the lady who runs the Bagette Bar in Melksham. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Rhydgaled on February 13, 2012, 00:14:50 13:26 Fishguard Harbour The first connecting train of the day from London arrives Melksham 19:11? Does Melksham only have one train a day then, I was under the impression it had two? Maybe the first is just too early for a London connection? Before the extra trains, I thought Fishguard probablly had the worst service (for locals) of any line in the UK that has a train every day (at least Monday - Saturday) all year. I knew Melksham's service was very bad, but now I see that maybe it is even worse than Fishguard's was.19:11 Melksham Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: grahame on February 13, 2012, 06:30:00 The first connecting train of the day from London arrives Melksham 19:11? Does Melksham only have one train a day then, I was under the impression it had two? Maybe the first is just too early for a London connection? Before the extra trains, I thought Fishguard probablly had the worst service (for locals) of any line in the UK that has a train every day (at least Monday - Saturday) all year. I knew Melksham's service was very bad, but now I see that maybe it is even worse than Fishguard's was. The second train from Swindon: Paddington 23:30 Swindon 00:45 to 06:12 Melksham 06:37 Also possible to use this same 23:30 train, change at Bath Spa and Trowbridge and arrive at Melksham at 07:20 Finally, the 17:33 from Paddington, change at Westbury, arrives at Melksham at 19:48 Both of these trains are pointelss from London - leave at the same time and arrive later, or overtaken. The 19:48 arrival is a higher fare. Not sure about the 07:20 arrival - it's "via Swindon" so I think the lower fare might apply, or you might need two tickets - would need to have a routing guide expert tell me. It depends on which figures you look at - in some ways Fishguard used to have a worse service, in some ways Melksham. Sorry - but it's "no contest" now and I'm delighted for Fishguard. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Zoe on February 13, 2012, 23:44:35 An earlier arrival in Plymouth was considered for the Great Western RUS but was rejected as the business case was weak. There would need to be evidence that there is demand for any earlier service an the conclusion that the business case for this is weak would suggest that it is not there.
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: JayMac on February 14, 2012, 12:19:54 The Great Western RUS was published nearly two years ago. The research for the document was carried out in the two years prior to publication, so the business case may be up to four years out of date.
In that time the air link from London to Plymouth has ceased. Passenger numbers have continued to rise at Plymouth station. Evidence that there is demand is surely there in the original news item posted in this thread. Various business and academic people all singing from the same song sheet. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Zoe on February 14, 2012, 13:20:22 Evidence that there is demand is surely there in the original news item posted in this thread. Various business and academic people all singing from the same song sheet. The question is if this demand would be sufficient to justify running an earlier service to Plymouth.Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: woody on February 18, 2012, 00:24:22 Evidence that there is demand is surely there in the original news item posted in this thread. Various business and academic people all singing from the same song sheet. The question is if this demand would be sufficient to justify running an earlier service to Plymouth.Minister of State for Transport in the debate on the next Great Western franchise in Westminster Hall on the 20th December 2011 "Plymouth is not Portsmouth,we are not 20 minutes from Bristol.Please stop ignoring us". Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: devon_metro on February 18, 2012, 01:07:49 Newton Abbot - Paignton takes 20 minutes max, Newton Abbot - Plymouth takes 40 minutes. I think you have your answer.
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: woody on February 18, 2012, 11:14:31 Newton Abbot - Paignton takes 20 minutes max, Newton Abbot - Plymouth takes 40 minutes. I think you have your answer. Sorry but those excuses are not going to wash anymore particularly with the closure now of Plymouths airport.The specification of the next Great Western franchise will no doubt be amended by the government.As everyone knows including MPs and business leaders alike very big mistakes were made when the present FGW franchise was let in 2006 leading to the present bodge-up or as "Modern Railways" magazine calls it the "Franchise from Hell".Even FGW itself has said recently(maybe in desperation) it will upgrade rail links to the south west if it wins the new franchise if the government ammends the specification.Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: The SprinterMeister on February 20, 2012, 08:29:52 Evidence that there is demand is surely there in the original news item posted in this thread. Various business and academic people all singing from the same song sheet. The question is if this demand would be sufficient to justify running an earlier service to Plymouth.It always strikes me as somewhat odd that at Exeter you have the spectacle of an HST going to Paignton at 09:32 follwed by a 150/1 making its way to Penzance at 09:36, particularly given the fair number of passengers making the leap from the HST to the unit at Exeter. Passengers who know they're going to be on there for a bit make the leap at Exeter for the chair of their choice, the ones only going the shorter distance make the leap at Newton Abbot to minimize their unit mileage. It should be possible to start the 1C73 07:06 Padd - Paignton at about 06:30 from Padd which would give you a slightly pre 10 am arrival if you diverted 1C73 to Plymouth using the existing stopping pattern as far as Exeter. Which would be sufficient time to sweep it out and send it back on its way to Paddington in the path it currently occupies from Newton Abbot (11:55 ex Exeter). It's doeable using the existing resources although the return working off 1C73 can be busy from Paignton of course which is why the HST is better suited to that job during the summer months. You could of course knock the Paignton trip out and use the unit to strengthen the next Exmouth to Paignton round trip (09:50ish ex Exeter) and run it as a four car which would give you a connection with carrying capacity off the Paignton - Exmouth back working into the up London services at Newton Abbot or Exeter. (although that would leave you minus one unit in Cornwall, I expect there is a way round that though.) It depends of course if your running the train service for Grockles or buisness people of course. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: The SprinterMeister on February 20, 2012, 09:47:20 Newton Abbot - Paignton takes 20 minutes max, Newton Abbot - Plymouth takes 40 minutes. I think you have your answer. Not really the answer at all bearing in mind the HST sits in the platform at Paignton for the best part of 40 minutes...Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Louis94 on February 20, 2012, 17:05:55 Pathing the up service from Plymouth would not be possible, it would need to leave Plymouth at around 1046, which isnt possible due to the Cornish Riveria which departs at 1044, which is non-stop to Exeter. Running it before the 1044 and looping at Newton Abbot would be quite tight aswell with the signalling sections between Plymouth and Totnes given the XC service departing Plymouth at 1025, even more so with the fact the Exeter to Penzance unit dosent arrive in Plymouth till 1041...
The Cornish Riviera already causes delay to the up service at Newton Abbot if it is late, the up service departs 8 minutes after the Cornish Riviera is booked to pass through. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on February 20, 2012, 17:08:00 If 1C73 did go to Plymouth (either in present timings or a bit earlier) it's not entirely obvious what the HST set would do next, as the return HST services from Plymouth it may be available for (ie 1044 or 1201 deprtures) come from Penzance. So the you get into more wide ranging questions eg would extending 1C73 to Penzance in the path of the 150 be justified, then you've lost that HST set from the London end for most of the day. Or run a new up HST from Plymouth between the 1044 and 1201 departures - would the traffic justify that?
So it's all a question of compromises to make sure that the HST's are in the best places for most of the traffic for most of the day. I'm sure FGW do their best to maximise the revenue from their HST's - why would they not? Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Louis94 on February 20, 2012, 17:14:39 If 1C73 did go to Plymouth (either in present timings or a bit earlier) it's not entirely obvious what the HST set would do next, as the return HST services from Plymouth it may be available for (ie 1044 or 1201 deprtures) come from Penzance. So the you get into more wide ranging questions eg would extending 1C73 to Penzance in the path of the 150 be justified, then you've lost that HST set from the London end for most of the day. Or run a new up HST from Plymouth between the 1044 and 1201 departures - would the traffic justify that? So it's all a question of compromises to make sure that the HST's are in the best places for most of the traffic for most of the day. I'm sure FGW do their best to maximise the revenue from their HST's - why would they not? Could send 1C73 to Penzance, return it on 2A64 which connects with the 1500 to London at Plymouth, so run that through to London (1A89), then use the unit which would form the Penzance unit from Exeter for a Paignton service, then send to Plymouth to run 2A64 ex Plymouth dep @ 1508. then use the HST set that terminates at Plymouth at 1436 to go to Laira to form 1A82 the following day, and that could even start Paignton still? Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on February 20, 2012, 17:40:21 Good heavens, Louise, that's very clever! I was going to say how would you cover the 1106 ex Paignton as it obvioulsy has a working out of Padd after it arrives at 1444, but you've even thought of that! Well done - or can somebody out there see a fatal flaw?
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Louis94 on February 20, 2012, 18:01:55 Good heavens, Louis, that's very clever! I was going to say how would you cover the 1106 ex Paignton as it obvioulsy has a working out of Padd after it arrives at 1444, but you've even thought of that! Well done - or can somebody out there see a fatal flaw? Why thank you! ;D Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on February 20, 2012, 21:47:00 Ah. It's just dawned on me that this would require an extra set, as Louis's plan would mean that a train currently covered in the daily programme would in fact be covered by a set from the previous day - ie the 1106 from Paignton.
Am I wrong? But maybe there are more opportunities to be explored as finishing an HST's daily programme at 1436 (as per Louis's plan, and even at Plymouth) is a bit early, and maybe it could do a couple of extra trips which would allow Louis's basic plan - ie extending 0706 ex Padd to Penzance - work. But I'm sure FGW's expert train programmers - in India, I'm led to understand, although maybe they only do the traincrew programming - have thought of all that. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Louis94 on February 21, 2012, 00:18:08 Ah. It's just dawned on me that this would require an extra set, as Louis's plan would mean that a train currently covered in the daily programme would in fact be covered by a set from the previous day - ie the 1106 from Paignton. Am I wrong? But maybe there are more opportunities to be explored as finishing an HST's daily programme at 1436 (as per Louis's plan, and even at Plymouth) is a bit early, and maybe it could do a couple of extra trips which would allow Louis's basic plan - ie extending 0706 ex Padd to Penzance - work. But I'm sure FGW's expert train programmers - in India, I'm led to understand, although maybe they only do the traincrew programming - have thought of all that. Should not require an extra set, as an extra set would go to Laira in the evenings, and an extra one would go out in the mornings. 1436 terminating service could then be used to form 1A92 (1657 dep from PLY) and the terminating service that would form it could continue to Penzance, and then come back in service. Another option could be to start the 1A96 1954 EXD - PAD from Plymouth, with the unit connecting at Plymouth instead of Exeter/Taunton (FO) Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: JayMac on February 21, 2012, 00:27:59 Louis94, you seem to have covered most bases pretty well. Dare I suggest you make your observations part of an official response to the Greater Western franchise consultation that is currently ongoing?
You can do this independently to the DfT or through this forum if you wish. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Louis94 on February 21, 2012, 00:52:55 Dare I suggest you make your observations part of an official response to the Greater Western franchise consultation that is currently ongoing? You can do this independently to the DfT or through this forum if you wish. Wow, I never throught i'd ever get that suggested to me! :D Not really upto speed with the whole franchise consultation procedure, would you mind explaining how I go about that?! Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: JayMac on February 21, 2012, 01:19:27 A good place to start would be reading this thread and the linked documents:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10037.0 The topic about an earlier arrival into Plymouth itself is one that has already generated opinions generally in favour of such a service. You can of course contact you local MP (if you live in that neck of the woods) to raise the issue with the DfT as part of the franchise consultation. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on February 21, 2012, 16:05:07 Should not require an extra set, as an extra set would go to Laira in the evenings, and an extra one would go out in the mornings. 1436 terminating service could then be used to form 1A92 (1657 dep from PLY) and the terminating service that would form it could continue to Penzance, and then come back in service. Another option could be to start the 1A96 1954 EXD - PAD from Plymouth, with the unit connecting at Plymouth instead of Exeter/Taunton (FO) Surely an extra set at Laira overnight means 1 less somewhere else, which of course means one less service starting up in the morning from Swansea, Bristol or wherever. We can't conjure up extra HST services in Cornwall without losing out somewhere else. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Louis94 on February 21, 2012, 16:40:51 Surely an extra set at Laira overnight means 1 less somewhere else, which of course means one less service starting up in the morning from Swansea, Bristol or wherever. We can't conjure up extra HST services in Cornwall without losing out somewhere else. Think you were right about the need for an extra set! Just looked at how the start/end arrangements of what I said. 1C73/1A82 start at OOC and End LA 1C79/1A89 start at PM and End SWA. Instead 1C73 would form 1A89 and end Swansea, 1C79 would end LA. So looks like it would require an extra set at Laira, or at OOC (which is more likely), if its possible to get the set off 1C79 back to there in the evening. Could be possible to then speed up the 0706 so it did not call at Newbury, Pewsey and Westbury, this could then improve the arrival time into Plymouth even further, maybe 1020-1030 ish. The Newbury, Pewsey and Westbury stops can then be added into a 0806 to Paignton or maybe a little bit earlier to ensure it can get to Paignton intime for the return working at 1106. Of course, its very easy for me to say this... but it depends on how easy this would be to diagram, I know theres 2 or 3 sets that go out of service after the peak, so surely could use one of these, given 1A82 gets back into London in plenty of time at 1444 for the evening peak! This would then make the service to Exeter hourly 0706 - 1906. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: The SprinterMeister on February 21, 2012, 22:01:41 Ah. It's just dawned on me that this would require an extra set, as Louis's plan would mean that a train currently covered in the daily programme would in fact be covered by a set from the previous day - ie the 1106 from Paignton. Am I wrong? But maybe there are more opportunities to be explored as finishing an HST's daily programme at 1436 (as per Louis's plan, and even at Plymouth) is a bit early, and maybe it could do a couple of extra trips which would allow Louis's basic plan - ie extending 0706 ex Padd to Penzance - work. But I'm sure FGW's expert train programmers - in India, I'm led to understand, although maybe they only do the traincrew programming - have thought of all that. Should not require an extra set, as an extra set would go to Laira in the evenings, and an extra one would go out in the mornings. 1436 terminating service could then be used to form 1A92 (1657 dep from PLY) and the terminating service that would form it could continue to Penzance, and then come back in service. Another option could be to start the 1A96 1954 EXD - PAD from Plymouth, with the unit connecting at Plymouth instead of Exeter/Taunton (FO) You should apply for a job with FGW's train planning department. Most impressive! ;D Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Lee on February 22, 2012, 09:44:07 From the Plymouth Herald: (http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/story-15290691-detail/story.html)
Quote from: Plymouth Herald Call to lobby Government over faster rail services Plymouth business leaders are being urged to lobby the Government for better and faster trains to the city. The call comes as ministers prepare to spell out how rail services to the South West should be delivered over the next 15 years. The Department for Transport is consulting on the terms for a new Great Western rail franchise after First Group decided to end its franchise three years early. The company is understood to be bidding to win the new, longer-term franchise. Business leaders, meeting today at the Royal Western Yacht Club in Plymouth, will be asked to write to the department spelling out the city's needs. David Parlby, chief executive of Plymouth Chamber of Commerce, said the city needs: An extra fast train from London, arriving in Plymouth before 10am. A three-hour train returning to London around 5pm so people can do a full day's work in the city. More frequent three-hour trains to London. Reconfiguration of rolling stock to better suit business needs to give people the ability to work effectively during their journeys with access to WiFi and continuous mobile phone coverage. Better capacity on local services to relieve overcrowding during rush hours and in summer. "Even if you are not a regular train user, the impact of improved connectivity will benefit everyone," Mr Parlby said. Cllr Kevin Wigens, the city's Cabinet member for transport, said: "This is an absolutely critical time for Plymouth to make its case for improved rail services. "It is of paramount importance that we take this rare opportunity to include improvements to our connectivity." Speakers at today's presentation and panel discussion include: Chris Irwin, chairman of Travel Watch South West; Clive Perkin, the council's assistant director of transport; Mr Parlby and Mr Wigens. The new Great Western franchise is due to commence in April 2013 and will be based on the services presently operated by First Great Western. The company operates 187 trains over 1,300 miles of track and as well as Plymouth serves London, Reading, Bristol, Oxford, Cardiff, Swansea, Exeter, Penzance, Southampton, Portsmouth, Brighton, Newbury, Gloucester, and Hereford and Worcester. Shortlisted applicants will receive an invitation to tender in May this year and the winning bidder will be announced in December. Mr Wigens said he was optimistic that the Government would take on board Plymouth's requests. "In these past six months we have raised the profile of the city's connectivity in Whitehall. We need to get as many of our asks included in the franchise document as we can. "We know how critical getting the sub-three-hour journey time is for companies and individuals looking to invest in Plymouth." He said the council was backing proposals for a rail spur from Reading to Heathrow which would improve the journey to the airport for Plymouth travellers. Philip Heseltine, the council's head of transport strategy, said: "We are very lucky to live and work in such a beautiful part of the UK. But if we are to survive in business and compete with other major cities we need to ensure that we can be reached easily." And the Western Morning News: (http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/story-15292387-detail/story.html) Quote from: Western Morning News Rail upgrade is first-class ticket to region's economic prosperity Improving Plymouth^s rail connectivity is vital for the region argues Neill Mitchell. Plymouth today is "A City with Ambition" and its strategic growth is enhancing the wider economic performance, wealth creation and employment prospects of Devon and Cornwall. Whilst it has long been the largest conurbation in the peninsula, the city's character has been transformed in the last decade. It has emerged from a brow-beaten subservience to low-wage manufacturing and grant dependency culture, to a new era as a vibrant university city, green and clean, a centre of excellence for medical research and innovation, marine and nuclear engineering, creative, leisure and lifestyle industries. The defeatism and lethargy of the past has given way to aspiration, overseas corporate control has been replaced by local initiative and institutional employment increasingly by entrepreneurship. The Plymothians of the 2010s are energetic go-getters, whose drive is benefiting us all as they strive to sharpen the overall competitiveness of the South West and engender a positively cool image for potential domestic and international investors alike. But, these "go-getters" need to be able to do just that, i.e. go out into the global marketplace and get new business. And, indeed, they also need customers to feel equally inclined to come inward to the region, without undue hassle. Securing such ease of connectivity is the next challenge and, inevitably, following closure of the city's airport in December the focus has now to be upon rail. Especially so as the Great Western Franchise will soon be re-let for the 15 years 2013-2028. No longer "last past the post" in responding to government consultations, Plymouth City Council has been keeping ahead of the game in preparing for the Department for Transport's Consultation upon the Replacement of the Great Western Rail Franchise, which closes on March 31. Months before the document was released, the city council's officers had already set about engaging nationally-recognised rail consultants to assist in the formulation of a realistic and affordable set of options to present to the DfT. This early work progressed to the formation of a task force, hardwiring the council in with the university, the Chamber of Commerce and the city's politicians on a cross-party basis. This group was able to apply clear thinking to the preparation of a strategy document, published under the no-nonsense title "Plymouth: The case for better rail services" (see www.plymouth.gov.uk/policyandplanning ). The largely service-level proposals in this document are relatively modest and decidedly low-cost (projected ^10 million, with an estimated payback of ^94 million a year to the economy) compared with the disproportionately vast rail infrastructure investments earmarked for other parts of the UK. The latter include the ^15 billion London Crossrail project, ^22 billion HS2 high speed line from Euston to Birmingham and the North, the ^8 billion electrification of the London to Bristol & SouthWales main line and so on. Yet, the Plymouth plan would iron out many anomalies which presently constrain the city's rail connectivity ^ not least the lack of down trains from London before late morning. The plan also focuses upon the need to accelerate intercity services, providing the shared "2-3-5" target of 2 hours journey time between Paddington and Exeter, 3 hours for Plymouth and 5 hours for Penzance. Unlike air transport, railways are not corridors which simply link one destination to another, rather they jointly serve huge geographical areas ^ especially so in Devon & Cornwall where we, today, have only the one Great Western main line operating west of Exeter. Thus, although Plymouth has a core population of 250,000 and sustains the wealth of a large surrounding economic catchment, under a total umbrella of some 400,000 (equal to the population of Cornwall), the upgrading of its rail services has the potential to deliver substantive spin-off benefits all the way to Penzance. It was past initiative and venture capital of the merchants of Plymouth, meeting in its Guildhall in 1834, that first prompted the building of Plymouth, Devonport & Exeter Railway through South Devon (later GWR). It was the importance of the city's port which drove further rail investment during the 20th century and, largely, the regional economic importance of the city which saved the peninsula from the catastrophic loss of its entire rail network ^ as advocated in the Serpell Report upon Railway Finances of 1983. So, Plymouth is once more championing the case for better rail services ^ for itself as Devon and Cornwall's principal city, for its economic catchment and for the overall 'connectivity benefit' of both counties. Let's hope the rationale and merits of the case which the city is advocating for the new franchise find favour within Whitehall, not just at the Department for Transport but ^ arguably more pertinently ^ also with the Department for Business. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Lee on February 22, 2012, 21:05:21 "Plymouth: The case for better rail services" can be found here. (http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/the_case_for_better_rail_services.pdf)
Here is a summary of what they want, and when: Quote from: Plymouth: The case for better rail services May 2012 Earlier morning arrival in Plymouth on a direct service from London through rescheduling an existing service. Dec 2013 An additional train providing a 3 hour journey from London to Plymouth arriving at 10.00am and a return 3 hour journey departing Plymouth for London at 4.00pm Hourly departures from Plymouth and London throughout the day with maximum journey time of 3 hours 15 minutes Hourly local mainline services stopping at intermediate stations between Penzance and Exeter to relieve overcrowding during the peaks and over the summer months A refurbishment programme to reconfigure passenger accommodation to better suit business needs including WIFI and continuous mobile coverage. Dec 2018 2 departures from London and Plymouth during the morning peak are speeded up to take no more than 3 hours 4 departures from London and Plymouth during the afternoon peak are speeded up to take no more than 3 hours These services are in addition to existing services which make the journey in 3 hours. They require additional trains to maintain service levels at stations between Exeter and London no longer served by fast services to and from Plymouth Upgrade of local mainline services replacing existing Class 150 rolling stock with ^Networker Turbo^ Class 165 Diesel Multiple Units made available following the electrification programme. By 2019 Complete feasibility and groundwork with a commitment to extend electrification of railway services to Plymouth. By 2024 As above but replacement of the existing High Speed Trains with new trains capable of achieving journey times between Plymouth and London within 2 hours 45 minutes. We have completed a full economic appraisal of these improvements. An independent economic study has assessed that these improvements will bring enormous economic benefits to Plymouth, the far South West and nationally - ^94 million a year. The case for improved rail connectivity is strengthened if the wider economic benefits are properly understood and analysed. The Government^s agenda is about economic growth where investment generates wealth. Investing in these faster journeys by rail is good for the South West economy and benefits the whole UK economy. Plymouth is doing much to achieve growth - just think what we could achieve with better rail connectivity. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Lee on February 23, 2012, 07:54:58 Interesting set of views reported by the Plymouth Herald here (http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/story-15294020-detail/story.html), including (as I rather suspected there might be) some dissent from further up the line...
Quote from: Plymouth Herald Why Plymouth needs a better railway service Less money is spent on the Great Western rail network than in any other part of the country, says the leader of a powerful rail lobby. "We have to get across to MPs that we have been hard done by," Chris Irwin, chairman of Travel Watch South West, said in Plymouth yesterday. Mr Irwin was speaking to business leaders, who are being urged to lobby the Government for better and faster trains. He said the South West had been an area of enormous population growth and a 70per cent increase in train travel since 1995. But Network Rail spent less on infrastructure and maintenance in the Western area than it did in any other part of England and Wales. He warned that there could be a two-tier rail service in the West, with planned electrification on the London-Bristol-Cardiff corridor while the rest of the region lagged behind. Mr Irwin was speaking as ministers prepare to spell out how rail services to the South West should be delivered over the next 15 years. With rail operator First Great Western due to relinquish its franchise next year, the Government is seeking the views of councils, MPs and organisations. He told a meeting at the Royal Western Yacht Club that Plymouth needed to work with the rest of the South West to ensure the Government got a single set of messages. "Pull together and we might get somewhere." But Mr Irwin urged the Plymouth rail task force not to try to tie the hands of a future train operator to any "wish list". Reliability and customer satisfaction were more important than journey times, he said. Mr Irwin called for "simple" improvements to the track and signalling, which he said would deliver improved journey times. These included "straightening a few sharp bends" and closing level crossings that caused hold-ups. "At the moment you have a second-rate service on a second-rate line. Plymouth deserves better." He praised Plymouth for its co-ordinated response to the Government's consultation, and said the city was "showing the way and others are being caused to follow". Mr Irwin said he understood that five companies were interested in bidding to run the new franchise form April 2013: First Group, Stagecoach, Arriva, the German-owned Arriva, National Express, and the Spanish operator RENFE. He said the last time that rail franchise was issued, in 2005, the outcome was "pretty disastrous". It was expensive for First Great Western, and expensive for the Government to put right. "We must not see the 2005 mistake happen again." He said the new franchise needed to ensure there was a "real improvement in the passenger experience. Trains need to be punctual and reliable, you need to be able to get a seat, and you need value for money." He said billions of pounds were involved in the rail franchise and Plymouth needed to ensure it was in the forefront of ministers' minds. Mr Irwin warned that much of the next ten years would see major rail disruption because of electrification of the London-Bristol-Cardiff corridor and Crossrail in London. Ian Jackson from city firm Argans Ltd, which provides satellite data services for customers including the European Space Agency, said: "We used to use the airport regularly, up to Gatwick and then on to places like Rome. Now we have to take the train, and it's in our interests to make it as good as possible. "It's not just the journey time, it's the level of service. I can't work if I haven't got WiFi." Guy Walker, chairman of the Plymouth Chamber of Commerce transport group, said: "We are at the point where we are going to have a major influence on the specifications of the rail franchise." PLYMOUTH'S FUTURE MUST NOT BE STIFLED Plymouth is "a city on the move" and must not be stifled by lack of connectivity, business leaders were told yesterday, Keith Rossiter writes. They were urged to lobby the Government to make the case for a better train service. Plymouth has the poorest rail, road and air links of the country's 67 biggest cities, Philip Heseltine, the council's head of transport strategy, told yesterday's meeting. The Department for Transport is consulting on the terms for a new Great Western rail franchise after First Group decided to end its franchise three years early. The company is understood to be bidding to win the new, longer-term franchise. Plymouth's rail task force, which brings together the city council, chamber of commerce and MPs, has drawn up a list of the city's key transport needs. These include: a fast train from London, arriving in Plymouth before 10am, with a return service at around 5pm; more three-hour trains to London; and WiFi and better mobile phone coverage on trains to allow people to work. Mr Heseltine said the objectives for the region were: two-hour journeys from Exeter; three hours from Plymouth; and five hours from Penzance. Much-needed improvements to the track and signalling would have to come from Network Rail and not the franchise holder, he said. Cllr Kevin Wigens, the city's Cabinet member for transport, said: "The things we are asking for are realistic, achievable and affordable." He said that winning improvements to the city's rail service was the most important issue the city faced. "It is close to a once in a generation opportunity to shape rail services to Plymouth and the region. "It is totally unacceptable to me that our earliest direct arrival from London is about 11.20am." He said he believed faster journeys was at least as important as reliability. "Plymouth is the key driver for jobs and investment in the region, and rail connectivity to the capital is absolutely fundamental to that," Mr Wigens said. Clive Perkin, assistant director for transport at the city council, said the strength of Plymouth's case was that it benefited the whole of the far South West. He said people had to be realistic and not hope for electrification of the line to Plymouth. But electrification elsewhere could release more trains for use on the Plymouth lines. He said there were two ways to achieve the shorter journeys ^ through faster trains, or fewer stops ^ but that was an argument to be had on another day. Mr Perkin said there was also a need for a much better commuter network. Cllr Tudor Evans, leader of the Labour group on the council, backed the city's submission to the Government. He added: "We really should be asking for a rail head into Exeter airport. "At this stage we need to make the case for the infrastructure, and it's even more important now that Plymouth Airport has closed." Mr Evans said he and the city's Labour group were "entirely supportive" of the rest of the case from the task force. Mr Perkin told him the city was having discussions with Devon County Council over plans to create a rail link to the airport. "It is part of the debate we are having with our neighbours." Jeremy Fox of Plymouth-based Claro Learning Ltd, said he travelled all over the country visiting clients. "Travelling on First Great Western every week is a kind of punishment," he said. Philip Hamilton, former managing director of Wrigley's in Plymouth, said that when he first came to Plymouth 25 years ago "there were always two and a half to three-hour trains". He said the problem started when the Government introduced penalties for lack of punctuality and the train operators changed their timetables in response. The city council and the Chamber of Commerce were urged to "keep an air service on the radar", despite last December's closure of the City Airport. "Reducing the journey to London by 15 to 30 minutes isn't going to deliver the city's aspiration for 42,000 new jobs", a member of the audience said. CRITICISM AS PLYMOUTH GOES OUT ON A LIMB IN CALL FOR IMPROVED RAIL LINKS Plymouth has been accused of going out on a limb with calls for more faster trains to London, Nick Lester, Parliamentary Correspondent, writes. The city's bid for more fast trains "goes right across what everyone else is trying to do," Torbay Lib Dem MP Adrian Sanders said. Increasing the frequency of the three-hour service would mean fewer high-speed trains stopping at Totnes, Tiverton Parkway, and Taunton, to shave time off the journey, he said. MPs from across the region met to agree a shared list of demands they want to secure in the new 15-year Great Western rail franchise. These included the roll-out of electrification, measures to speed up the track, and tackling future overcrowding. "There is a lot of anger that Plymouth has gone out on a limb when we need to be united," Mr Sanders said. Alison Seabeck, Labour MP for Plymouth Moor View, who arranged the regional cross-party event, said: "The aim of the meeting was not to fight about local issues but to come up with some over-arching key issues." TRAINS FACTFILE Eight out of the 10 most crowded trains into London at peak times are arrivals at Paddington Station, the Great Western terminal. 70% ^ the increase in South West train travel since 1995. 187 trains operated by First Great Western. 54 Intercity 125 train sets operate on the Western network. 1,580 train services each week day. 66million passenger journeys a year. 17 million train miles a year. 4,800 employees work for First Great Western. 72per cent of train miles in the Great Western area are operated by First Great Western. Other franchise holders include CrossCountry Trains. First Great Western operates on 1,300 miles of track in the region, across towns and cities including Plymouth, Bristol, Oxford, Cardiff, Swansea, Exeter, Penzance, Southampton, Portsmouth, Brighton, Newbury, Gloucester, and Hereford and Worcester. ^694million: First great Western revenues in the last financial year. ^250million: premium paid by FGW to the Department for Transport. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on February 23, 2012, 11:08:16 Some HST sets will of course become available when the Class 180's take over on Cotswold services later thisn year - what are the chances of some of these being used to improve W of E sevices? Or is there some other plan for them?
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: IndustryInsider on February 23, 2012, 11:26:29 The 180's are only taking over Turbo operated services, as far as I'm aware all current HST operated services will remain HST's.
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Lee on February 23, 2012, 11:51:20 From the Western Morning News: (http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/story-15296002-detail/story.html)
Quote from: Western Morning News Government urged to ^go electric^ for rail Westcountry MPs have joined forces to press the Government for electric trains and to end the over-crowding blighting rail services in the region. Members from across Devon and Cornwall met in West-minster to agree a shared list of demands they want to secure in the new 15-year Great Western rail franchise. The existing contract, run by First Great Western, has left the region with the oldest mainline fleet, the most expensive fares and the highest levels of over-crowding. Alison Seabeck MP, who organised the summit, said there is a risk of the region looking ^parochial^ if all members pushed for separate improvements without an ^over-arching^ proposal. The Labour MP of Plymouth Moor View said: ^We agreed that we can use our collective voice to say to the Government this is what is important to the region as whole.^ Last year, First Great Western, which runs the London Paddington to Penzance mainline and branchline services in Devon and Cornwall, was named as having the most overcrowded carriages in the country. Official figures revealed an early morning service from Reading to Paddington at times held nearly twice its standard-class capacity. Another survey, in 2010, showed seven out of the ten most over-crowded services were on First routes. While a seat is most unlikely on commuter links into the capital, inter-city services and branchlines in Devon and Cornwall are also under-strain as the popularity of rail grows among workers, students and tourists. Mrs Seabeck said an ^obligation^ to ease over-crowding should be written into the franchise. Another demand is for the Government to commit to a ^rolling^ programme of upgrading South West lines to run electric trains, which are more reliable than the 1970s diesels available. Ministers have committed to electrifying the line to Bristol and Wales, but not the other mainline serving Taunton, Exeter, Plymouth and through to Cornwall. Measures to speed up the track and the economic impact of rail decisions Government makes were also discussed. Individual MPs are also likely to peel off from the main group to champion issues particular to their part of the franchise area, which includes a vast swathe of the South West and Wales. Cornwall MPs have already made it clear that losing the overnight sleeper service to Penzance, which was at risk of being ditched under the 2006 franchise, would be unacceptable. MPs from Plymouth and the surrounding area are calling for more fast three-hour trains between the Westcountry^s biggest city and London. But this would mean fewer of the high-speed trains stopping at stations such as Totnes, Tiverton Parkway, and Taunton, to shave time off the journey. Liberal Democrat MP for Torbay Adrian Sanders is critical: ^It goes right across what everyone else is trying to do. The answer is to cut everyone^s journey times.^ Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on February 23, 2012, 17:56:26 The 180's are only taking over Turbo operated services, as far as I'm aware all current HST operated services will remain HST's. Does that include, for example, 0714 Didcot-Padd stopper? And won't some of the Padd-Oxford HST services go to 180's? Edit - sorry, realise I'm straying off topic a bit. Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Lee on February 24, 2012, 08:41:04 Never mind, Gordon. This should bring it bang back on again... ;D
From This Is Plymouth: (http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/story-15306814-detail/story.html) Quote from: This Is Plymouth Plymouth is snubbed in talks over the future of rail in the region Long-suffering rail travellers in Plymouth have been shunned by the Government ahead of a crucial deal on future train services. The city has been left off the list of locations chosen to stage public meetings as part of the consultation on the terms for the new Great Western rail franchise. Just three are being held in Exeter, Bristol and Reading. The snub has been branded ^wholly unacceptable^ by the Labour MP for Plymouth Moor View, Alison Seabeck, who has written to the Rail Minister Theresa Villiers demanding an explanation and calling for the city^s inclusion. And Cllr Kevin Wigens, the city^s Cabinet member for transport, said: ^We are very angry about this. ^When we heard about it we immediately sent a letter to the Department for Transport protesting. ^We think it is a disgraceful decision that the second biggest city in the region has been cut out of the consultation.^ Ms Seabeck said Plymouth was the region^s busiest station outside of Bristol with 2.3 million passengers a year. The implications of changes to rail services were potentially more significant for the city given its position as a crucial economic driver for the peninsula, and having recently lost its airport. The Government started the process to select a new operator to run services on the Great Western route, after First Group decided to relinquish its franchise three years early. The company is understood to be one of five that have expressed an interest in bidding for the longer 15-year contract. The consultation currently under way is into the franchise specification that will be provided to shortlisted bidders. Plymouth^s wish-list includes more frequent three-hour trains to London, a fast train from London, arriving in Plymouth before 10am, and a return three-hour train to the capital at around 5pm so people can do a full day^s work in the city. There are also calls to make the carriages more business-friendly so people can work better on board, with access to WiFi and good mobile phone coverage. Given the importance of rail links, the sidelining of the city in the public consultation has sparked anger. In her letter to the Minister, Ms Seabeck wrote: ^I was extremely concerned to learn that Plymouth has been excluded from the schedule. ^This is wholly unacceptable when it is the second largest city in the South West region, geographically central to the far South West and has the highest number of passengers annually of any individual station west of Bristol.^ She added: ^I would welcome both an explanation of exactly the reasons why Plymouth has been left out, yet again, from a Government consultation and a reorganisation of the planned events to include Plymouth.^ A Department for Transport spokesman said later: ^In today^s austere times the department has limited resources and cannot hold consultation events at every location along the route. ^Bristol, Reading and Exeter were chosen to maximise engagement from local stakeholders. Any member of the public can take part in the wider Government consultation by writing to their local council, MP or Passenger Focus.^ Just to be clear, any member of the public can also respond directly to the consultation - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10037.msg104284#msg104284 Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: grahame on February 24, 2012, 12:14:59 Quote The city has been left off the list of locations chosen to stage public meetings as part of the consultation on the terms for the new Great Western rail franchise. Just three are being held in Exeter, Bristol and Reading. Please remind me, Lee .. did we have a thread somewhere telling people about these meetings / who's running them? Are they DfT, Passenger Focus, or someone else? Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: Rain on February 24, 2012, 15:44:39 I think people are missing the point here. While Plymouth is of histroric significance due to the navy base there, this is now in decline and Exeter is now the key city for the South West peninsula and I would expect be where the majority of people on a train for the Westcountry are heading for.
Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: grahame on February 24, 2012, 16:37:13 I think people are missing the point here. While Plymouth is of histroric significance due to the navy base there, this is now in decline and Exeter is now the key city for the South West peninsula and I would expect be where the majority of people on a train for the Westcountry are heading for. Plymouth has more passenger journeys at its main station that the main station in Exeter (that's the one served by the London to Plymouth trains) does, so you shouldn't write it off. You can, of course, find arguments both ways; Exeter has the luxury of a second main line to London, so perhaps the Paddington trains are more significant to Plymouth. However, I don't live in Devon / am not well placed to comment - especially in a negative context. Welcome to the forum, Rain ... are you from that neck of the woods? Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: woody on February 24, 2012, 22:44:42 I think people are missing the point here. While Plymouth is of histroric significance due to the navy base there, this is now in decline and Exeter is now the key city for the South West peninsula and I would expect be where the majority of people on a train for the Westcountry are heading for. I regularly travel on FGW HSTs between Exeter and Plymouth and I can assure you that the majority of passengers are travelling to destinations west of Exeter particularly Plymouth (400,000 people live within a 10 mile radius) where further significant numbers of passengers join for Cornish stations particularly at peak times.It seems that certain people on this forum are in a constate state of denial about rail demand from Plymouth which currently has some 2.3million journeys (more than Exeter St Davids) and rising since the closure of the city airport.As the old saying goes "theres nowt so blind as those who dont want to see" and that it seems includes First Group and their cronies.Roll on a new franchisee.Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: The SprinterMeister on February 26, 2012, 12:58:37 Roll on a new franchisee. Indeed. let one of the cost cutting bidders get the GW and watch the services reduce even further or class 153's being booked out instead of class 253's.As far as Plymouth airport is concerned as I understand it the biggest problem was the limits on the size of aircraft that could use it which tended to push up costs to each passenger, thus suppressing demand and pushing up unit costs even further. That said by the time you checked in etc and made your way from the London airport to the city was there actually any advantage in terms of travelling by air from Plymouth to London? Title: Re: Plymouth MP slams city's rail link with the capital Post by: grahame on February 26, 2012, 13:56:52 Roll on a new franchisee. Indeed. let one of the cost cutting bidders get the GW and watch the services reduce even further or class 153's being booked out instead of class 253's.Any company that bids does so (if they want to win) based on the flavour of what's in the specification and the stated objectives on which the franchise will be awarded. So to a very great extent, the "cut price bidder" syndrome comes down to what's specified, as well as the company bidding. Indeed, the current franchise was awarded with a cutback on services - both in number and train length - some of which were Draconian. I hope that a longer view with a fifteen year franchise sets the groundwork for a company that will invest for the longer term to be selected, as we've seen happen with Chiltern; I'm not sure that we should pre-judge any potential TOC based on how that have answered previous franchises with different agendas and lengths. But of course, if the DfT were to get this one wrong, many of us will have to live with the consequences for the rest of our lives. So we should really help the DfT get things right as we answer the consultations that are going on - after all, they have asked for our guidance. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |