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All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on January 26, 2012, 18:41:40



Title: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 26, 2012, 18:41:40
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-16741868:

Quote
An 85-year-old woman drove down a train line for 80 yards (73m) after accidentally turning on to the tracks at a level crossing in Hampshire.

The woman was driving towards Brockenhurst station in the New Forest when she turned on to the track between Bournemouth and London Waterloo.

She stopped her car and called for help at about 09:30 GMT. She was treated, along with her passenger, for shock.

The incident caused rail delays and a bus replacement service was set up.

The car was later removed by crane.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: inspector_blakey on January 26, 2012, 18:48:16
A prime facie case for licence withdrawal at the very least, it would seem.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: eightf48544 on January 26, 2012, 19:01:19
Lucky she didn't short out the third rail.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: bigdaz on January 26, 2012, 19:07:51
Lucky she didn't short out the third rail.

And that, dearhearts, is the power of Tenna Lady :D


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: anthony215 on January 26, 2012, 19:29:38
A prime facie case for licence withdrawal at the very least, it would seem.

I was thinking that myself when I read this.

Something needs to be done about drivers aged over 60 half of the ones I have encountered are bloody dangerous.

I have once come round a corner doing 60mph (the speed limit on the road) and had to slam on the brakes because some stupid o.a.p was only doing around 20mph and couldn't drive in a straight line, driver nearly clipped me as I overtook as she suddently realised she wanted to change lanes and didnt bother looking till I blasted the horn (and a bit of  hand gesturing)


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: inspector_blakey on January 26, 2012, 19:43:46
Lucky she didn't short out the third rail.

And that, dearhearts, is the power of Tenna Lady :D

As a Guardian-reading, wooly-minded, politically-correct liberal, I really shouldn't find that funny.

But it's hilarious! Definitely my nomination for post of the week. Possibly the month...  ;D


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: ellendune on January 26, 2012, 21:09:13
Something needs to be done about drivers aged over 60 half of the ones I have encountered are bloody dangerous.

As someone not far off that age I would remind you that we are so fit and healthy that we cannot possibly retire until we are 66 or 67 or 68 these days.  I think your threshold needs to be set a bit higher.  Did it not say that the driver was 85.  That 25 years more than 60!  Thats like saying a 25 year old is the same as a 50 year old!


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: JayMac on January 26, 2012, 21:31:51
At the moment driving licences have to be renewed at 70, and then every 3 years after that. Unfortunately there is no 'fitness to drive' assessment carried out.

My own opinion is that everyone should be periodically reassessed.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: inspector_blakey on January 26, 2012, 22:24:59
In the interests of balance, I'm not sure there's much correlation between age and ineptitude with the drivers I know. Some are truly terrifying but well under 60!


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 26, 2012, 22:34:39
Without wishing to make any assumptions about her driving ability, the lady who drove her car onto the level crossing at Newquay (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10178.0) last week is 28 ...  :P ::)


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: EBrown on January 26, 2012, 22:50:50
Without wishing to make any assumptions about her driving ability, the lady who drove her car onto the level crossing at Newquay (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10178.0) last week is 28 ...  :P ::)
Neither should have licences (unless they are somehow not at fault).


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 26, 2012, 23:20:03
More details in a report from the Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4088996/Crash-news-OAP-took-wrong-turn-on-to-railway-lines.html) - including some startling pictures of the scene:

Quote
Gran, 85, takes wrong turn on to railway lines

A driver aged 85 diced with death this morning ^ driving up a rush-hour train track after taking a wrong turn at a level crossing.

The gran was believed to have been taking her 20-year-old grandson to the station when she mistakenly steered on to the busy rail line.

And she rattled along the electrified London to Bournemouth track for 70 yards.

Commuters watched in horror as the drama unfolded at Brockenhurst station, Hants.

Cops rushed to the scene and climbed on to the tracks before lifting the pair to safety, but the incident shut down the line for almost two hours.

Witness Alex Capozza, 30, from Bournemouth, said: "They are very lucky they were not hurt ^ the route is very busy at that time of the morning.

"Thankfully the signal box is quite close to where the woman stopped so they must have quickly raised the alarm to other trains.

"I saw the elderly lady in the car ^ she looked shaken. There was a police officer with her, trying to calm her down.

"When I saw it, I just couldn't believe there was a car on the tracks.

"Thankfully neither of them were hurt. I think the lady was taken away in a taxi ^ I don't think she'll be getting back in a car again."

A spokeswoman for British Transport Police said: "An 85-year-old woman driver and 20-year-old man that were in the car at the time have been treated for shock, but no other injuries have been reported."

A crane was later brought in to remove the stranded Renault Clio.

There's a new career for her as a stunt driver, I reckon.  :o ::) ;D


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: JayMac on January 27, 2012, 01:46:24
Lucky she didn't short out the third rail.

Would the bobby in the adjacent signal box have been able to instantly cut power to the 3rd rail once he saw the car drive onto the line?

Fairly sure there was little danger of electric shock to the car's occupants though. A car is a pretty good Faraday cage.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on January 27, 2012, 05:58:47
Some people will go to extrodanry lengths to avoid buying a ticket!


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: MrC on January 27, 2012, 09:26:25
Would the bobby in the adjacent signal box have been able to instantly cut power to the 3rd rail once he saw the car drive onto the line?

Fairly sure there was little danger of electric shock to the car's occupants though. A car is a pretty good Faraday cage.

An emergency call to Eastleigh ECO would have been the quickest way for the signaller. Must have been quite a shock seeing a car drive past your box along the rails.

The danger to the car occupants is more likely fire as a number of cars have gone up in flames very quickly in similar circumstances. The low voltage/high current in third rail land quickly generates a huge amount of heat in a short circuit condition.

The Brockenhurst incident is very similar to one at Wool a few years ago when a 79 year old misjudged a road junction and ended up driving on the rails past the box for quite a way. That car ended up a smouldering heap.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: paul7575 on January 27, 2012, 10:46:03
None of the news articles, from whatever source, have bothered to check the distance.  The car was stopped by the points no more than about 25 yards from the level crossing.  80 yards must have been a wild guess by someone which seems to have become accepted fact. 

Paul


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: EBrown on January 27, 2012, 10:46:58
None of the news articles, from whatever source, have bothered to check the distance.  The car was stopped by the points no more than about 25 yards from the level crossing.  80 yards must have been a wild guess by someone which seems to have become accepted fact. 

Paul
Another points failure? All she wanted to do was change line...


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on January 27, 2012, 10:52:36
None of the news articles, from whatever source, have bothered to check the distance.  The car was stopped by the points no more than about 25 yards from the level crossing.  80 yards must have been a wild guess by someone which seems to have become accepted fact. 

Paul
Another points failure? All she wanted to do was change line...

And despite rumours to the contrary the driver was not trying to reach 88 miles an hour.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: eightf48544 on January 27, 2012, 11:21:45
Lucky it was a manned box, wonder what would have happened at a CCTV or AHB crossing.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: MrC on January 27, 2012, 11:39:34
None of the news articles, from whatever source, have bothered to check the distance.  The car was stopped by the points no more than about 25 yards from the level crossing.  80 yards must have been a wild guess by someone which seems to have become accepted fact. 

The perspective on the photos is a bit out. She got past the frog on the points to Pl.1 not far short of the platform ramp - it might not be 80 yds but it's a lot further than 25. Out of curiosity just fired up the measuring tool on Google Maps and it reckons 50m/164ft from the edge of the road to approximately where the front of the car stopped.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 27, 2012, 12:42:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P7_t4-WsB8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P7_t4-WsB8)

 ;)


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: EBrown on January 27, 2012, 13:50:55
There's a new career for her as a stunt driver, I reckon.  :o ::) ;D
Well she won't make a good train driver, she was a fair way off the stop board!


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Phil on January 27, 2012, 20:09:39
I remember a taxi driver in Wales ( I shan't say where exactly for reasons that'll become clear in a moment) telling me a couple of years ago that his 93 year old father had collected 9 points on his licence in the past 4 years alone.

He then explained with a grin that his father hadn't actually driven a car for 20 years, but he did rather enjoy a bottle of Scotch every now and again....


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: broadgage on January 30, 2012, 11:30:08
I have once come round a corner doing 60mph (the speed limit on the road) and had to slam on the brakes because some stupid o.a.p was only doing around 20mph and couldn't drive in a straight line, driver nearly clipped me as I overtook as she suddently realised she wanted to change lanes and didnt bother looking till I blasted the horn (and a bit of  hand gesturing)

I would however ask, was driving at 60 MPH sensible in such conditions, although permitted.
What would you have done if the other vehicle had been not moving at 20MPH, but had been stopped by mechanical failure or illness ?
What if there had been a horserider or cyclist moving at less than 20MPH in the road ?


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: rogerpatenall on January 30, 2012, 13:48:50

I have once come round a corner doing 60mph (the speed limit on the road) and had to slam on the brakes
The road limit may be 60, but that isn't the minimum.  It doesn't necessarily mean that it is safe to drive around a (presumably blind) corner at the maximum speed.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: JayMac on January 30, 2012, 14:30:19
Oh dear. 60mph going round a corner from which you obviously couldn't see enough of the road ahead if you had to slam on the brakes.

It would appear that your driving was equally as poor as the OAPs. And from someone who is, I believe, a professional driver.  ::)


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 25, 2012, 11:29:39
From the Southern Daily Echo (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/district/newforest/9553645.Gran_who_drove_along_rail_track_gives_up_licence/):

Quote
Gran who drove along rail track in Brockenhurst gives up licence

A pensioner who drove her car along a high-speed rail line has escaped prosecution after giving up her driving licence.

The 85-year-old was giving her grandson a lift to Brockenhurst station when she took a wrong turn and ended up on the track.

Instead of stopping or reversing back on to the road she carried on for about 80 yards ^ narrowly avoiding the live rail.

As reported in the Daily Echo, her silver-coloured Renault Clio came to rest on a set of points at the end of platform two, halting trains for almost two hours.

The pensioner, who lives in the New Milton area, was later reported for careless driving.

But British Transport Police (BTP) have dropped the case ^ largely as a result of her decision to quit driving.

A BTP spokesman said: ^Given the woman^s age, and the fact that she^s surrendered her licence, officers are taking no further action.^

The incident occurred shortly after the morning rush-hour on January 26.

The pensioner was halfway across a level crossing when she veered left, apparently mistaking the line for the entrance to the station car park.

The car was removed by a crane after she and her 20-yearold grandson were rescued and checked by paramedics.

A similar incident happened at the same spot in 1997, when a 46-year-old woman drove 15 yards up the track.

Hampshire County Council leader Ken Thornber, who represents Brockenhurst, has told highway chiefs to carry out a safety review of the crossing.

Councillor Maureen Holding, who represents Brockenhurst on the district council, said the line was next to the car park entrance and warned that a similar incident could occur in fog. Earlier this month it was revealed that the number of drivers aged 80 or over has topped one million for the first time. But motoring organisations say people over 70 should only be forced to stop driving if there were ^compelling^ reasons.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 28, 2013, 23:15:34
An update on this incident, from the Bournemouth Echo (http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/districts/newforest/10190109._/?):

Quote
A year after OAP drove onto high-speed railway line, the wait for new signs goes on

(http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/resources/images/2311500/?type=articleLandscape)

It was a disastrous error that could have led to tragedy. An 85-year-old motorist was half-way across a level crossing when she suddenly veered off the road and along a high-speed railway line, narrowly missing the live rail and halting trains.

But highway chiefs have taken a year to devise a scheme aimed at preventing anything similar happening again.

Campaigners have condemned the delays surrounding the project, which includes new road signs either side of the barrier-controlled crossing at Brockenhurst station.

Denis Fryer, of the South Hampshire Rail Users^ Group, said: ^It^s very poor. The risks attached to any incident involving an electrified rail are huge. The county council seems to have taken an awfully long time to address something that should have been dealt with pretty quickly.^

The incident happened a year ago today. A New Milton pensioner was giving her 20-year-old grandson a lift when she mistook the line for the entrance to the station car park. Instead of stopping or reversing, she drove 80 yards up the track and ended up on a set of points near the end of platform two. She and her grandson escaped unhurt after rail employees quickly switched off the power.

Network Rail said trains were in no danger because the crossing barriers were up, which meant all the signals in the area were on red.

The gran was reported for careless driving, but British Transport Police dropped the case after she handed in her licence.

The proposed new directional signs aim to prevent anyone else making the same error.

Parish council chairman Russell Horne welcomed the scheme, but called for the inclusion of a ^non-standard^ sign highlighting the position of the track. ^At the moment there^s nothing to indicate that there^s a railway there,^ he said.

Cllr Horne defended the time taken to implement the measures. He said: ^It^s always a lot better when things are done more speedily, but the county council has had to carry out a proper process of consultation and consideration.^

A Network Rail spokesman said: ^What happened at Brockenhurst was incredibly unusual. It^s not the sort of thing we see every day.^

South West Trains declined to comment.

What the county council says

Councillor Mel Kendal, deputy leader and executive member for environment and transport, said: ^Immediately following the incident the county council, as the highway authority, carried out a preliminary assessment and concluded that signage was not a significant causal factor in this case.

^Because the incident took place on the railway, Network Rail undertook a detailed review and our highways engineers were happy to provide their input.

^Once the review was largely complete, our initial view was there was nothing to change our preliminary conclusion about signage but we did think it was appropriate to refresh the signing in the area. Some early proposals were prepared and have been discussed with the parish council.

^Following comments received from them, we are currently in discussion with the Department for Transport to see if we are able to accommodate a request for signs which ordinarily would not be compliant with the Department^s standards and regulations.^


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: JayMac on January 28, 2013, 23:25:28
I'm surprised Denis Fryer of SHRUG couldn't find a way of blaming SWT.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: inspector_blakey on January 28, 2013, 23:38:52
Oh for pity's sake! As if someone so terminally befuddled and confused at the wheel that they drive down a s0dd1ng *railway line* is going to pay the tiniest bit of attention to some "signage".

Parish council chairman Russell Horne welcomed the scheme, but called for the inclusion of a ^non-standard^ sign highlighting the position of the track. ^At the moment there^s nothing to indicate that there^s a railway there,^ he said.

Apart from the presence of an obvious multi-track railway  ??? ??? ???

This kind of cr@p really makes my blood boil. The problem was solved the second this driver handed in her licence and no further action is necessary, surely?

I'm surprised Denis Fryer of SHRUG couldn't find a way of blaming SWT.

Quite. Nice to see Mr Fryer of SHRUG offering an erudite and valuable opinion on the subject.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 29, 2013, 00:04:03
Quote
A New Milton pensioner was giving her 20-year-old grandson a lift when she mistook the line for the entrance to the station car park. Instead of stopping or reversing, she drove 80 yards up the track and ended up on a set of points near the end of platform two.

Hmm.  If the dear old lady was apparently so oblivious to the racket caused under her car by her driving so far up a railway line, I'm not sure that any mere visual signage would have dissuaded her from initially taking that route.  :P


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: paul7575 on January 29, 2013, 01:05:11
It worries me that the local media give 'SHRUG' house room.  As we can see regularly see, it seems little more than a one man rant factory.

I very much doubt if SWT or NR give them any credence whatsoever.

Back to the level crossing - are they all trying to suggest that it is easily missed when the barriers are raised?  Are people generally really so useless these days...

Paul


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: bobm on January 29, 2013, 09:38:22
What sort of "directional signs" are they planning?  No right turn?  I'm struggling to see what more you can do to indicate the presence of a double track railway.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: paul7575 on January 29, 2013, 10:02:07
The supposed problem is that if you are heading south towards the barriers there is a right turn immediately before them leading towards the station building and one of the car parks.  But there must be many other set ups just like that all over the country, a succession of right turns in close proximity is hardly unusual. As the council have hinted at in their response, they think non-standard signage would be needed to cover the situation.  Do they then have to assume people could make the same error coming from the other direction, and/or when making left turns - I mean where do you draw the line?

Paul




Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: bobm on January 29, 2013, 13:22:12
I agree. She should have tried Wokingham. Don't have a photo to hand but a mini roundabout one side and a t-junction the other!


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Phil on January 29, 2013, 19:46:38
At the moment driving licences have to be renewed at 70, and then every 3 years after that. Unfortunately there is no 'fitness to drive' assessment carried out.

My own opinion is that everyone should be periodically reassessed.

Have to say, I agree with this wholeheartedly. That would also cure the issue of individuals aged over 80 with no intention of driving ever again, who take a hit in terms of penalty points incurred by family members who might wish to retain a clean or cleaner licence for employment purposes.

I should make it clear that I personally have no experience of this happening, and am merely recounting hearsay evidence reported to me by a person living well outside of my own immediate community....


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: GBM on January 30, 2013, 09:41:45
I'm regularly annoying my family by saying everyone from 60 years should have a compulsory test every three or four years.  From 70 on it should be every two years. Failure should result in a complete retest from the beginning.
I'm almost 64 now (before anyone accuses me of being ageist).
It wouldn't go down well with any Government as a pre-election hit, but I'm sure the DVLA would love the paperwork, (and test centres the extra work).


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Brucey on January 30, 2013, 18:01:52
I have to agree with you there GBM.  But I'd go even further and suggest compulsory testing of everyone every 10 to 15 years.  People forget things.  I'll never forget the argument with my mother after I stopped in a box junction waiting to turn right.  ::)

By the way, on behalf of the forum team , welcome to the Coffee Shop forum GBM.


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 31, 2013, 00:08:59
I'll never forget the argument with my mother after I stopped in a box junction waiting to turn right.  ::)

If you were trying to turn right onto the railway tracks at Brockenhurst, she was quite right! ;) :D ;D


Title: Re: Brockenhurst level-crossing woman drives along tracks - 26 January 2012
Post by: GBM on January 31, 2013, 10:26:44
Thanks Brucey.
Not often I find someone agreeing with me.........
Yes, lazy habits creep in and become the current new (like the current phase of steering with the flat palm of one hand........w h a a a t?????????????).
I.A.M member for 35+ years, but bad habits had crept in,
Recently took my PCV licence: that shook the cobwebs out, and woke me up again.
 :)



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