Title: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Btline on December 28, 2011, 23:18:14 Frustrated commuters have now had enough, and a national day of action is now planned on 3rd Jan. Riots are predicted as scores of angry commuters are expected to refuse to pay and storm the barriers. TOCs are bracing themselves for "nightmare conditions" and are advising customers not to travel unless absolutely necessary. Parliament has been recalled in emergency, and it is expected that unprecedented powers are to be used to allow reclaim control of the rails.
http://www.bringbackbritishrail.org/ http://www.farefail.org/ Shame I've already paid for my fare to London on the 3rd! ;D Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Super Guard on December 29, 2011, 11:42:27 Frustrated commuters have now had enough, and a national day of action is now planned on 3rd Jan. Riots are predicted as scores of angry commuters are expected to refuse to pay and storm the barriers. TOCs are bracing themselves for "nightmare conditions" and are advising customers not to travel unless absolutely necessary. Parliament has been recalled in emergency, and it is expected that unprecedented powers are to be used to allow reclaim control of the rails. http://www.bringbackbritishrail.org/ http://www.farefail.org/ Shame I've already paid for my fare to London on the 3rd! ;D Is there a news article somewhere re: Parliament being recalled early and TOCS saying don't travel unless you have to ? I don't see how storming barriers and rioting is going to achieve anything or be encouraged by these groups. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on December 29, 2011, 11:44:30 think that part was tongue-in-cheek....
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Super Guard on December 29, 2011, 11:54:08 Fair enough, i've think my "tongue-in-cheek" monitor blew up after too much time with relatives over Christmas :D
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Btline on December 29, 2011, 12:03:32 It was tongue in cheek. I am actually intrigued as to what will happen. Will it be like the "fares strike" (currently nothing new on MTLS) or is it just a twitter rant. I'm also not trying to patronise the campaign, I hope it achieves something - the fares are getting ridiculous IMO. I'm not sure what gains the fares strike had - but I know FGW did get a kick that year, and things improved later under AH.
Does anyone know the plan? I will be onboard and don't want to get embroiled in organised fare evasion! (well, not until I'm out of my meeting...)! Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on December 29, 2011, 12:55:05 They're keeoping things under their hats right now - I'm still waiting to hear....but it was trailed as a twitter/IM campaign....
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: old original on December 29, 2011, 17:33:35 Here's a thought...
Fares are rising by about 6% this year and there's the usual howls of protest and threat of action. Petrol is about 12% higher than a year ago and....nothing. How about we all fill our tanks up but then refuse to pay the difference, or is that called theft? :-\ Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on December 29, 2011, 22:24:59 ChrisB..If you are referring to the post above re petrol I think it's kind of tongue in cheek and is likening people refusing to pay train fares because they have risen so far to refusing to pay for petrol as those prices have risen too.. Obviously neither is acceptable...
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: JayMac on December 29, 2011, 22:53:55 Deliberate fare evasion is not to be condoned in any shape or form.
There are myriad legal consequences should one decide to join such a protest. Whilst you may feel some justification in protesting in such a way, you run the very real risk of a criminal record that could potentially have far reaching consequences. Don't think that safety in numbers will protect you. Now that the cat is out of the bag as it were, there's the very real chance that TOC revenue protection staff and BTP will be out in force. We are in an economic situation at the moment where inflation is affecting all aspects of life. The price of goods and services has risen, and continues to rise, across the board. Why should it be acceptable to refuse to pay the asking price for a train fare and not, as examples, your food shopping, utilities or leisure purchases? I'll continue to offer legitimate fare avoidance hints and tips but will not be joining in with this misguided protest. I very much doubt that this protest will achieve anything except perhaps seeing a large number of people in court. It may surprise some who know me personally but that is exactly what I'd want to see. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on December 29, 2011, 22:59:18 I know you and it doesn't surprise me.. :)
Also I posted what I did as ChrisB had asked for the previous post to be removed (I think) by saying "Please Remove".. He seems to now have removed his "Please Remove" comment which now makes what I wrote seem a bit strange.. oh well.. ::) (I'm pretty sure I didn't dream it up ;D) Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: EBrown on December 29, 2011, 23:02:58 I am travelling on the 3rd, I also really hope this doesn't affect my journey in any way.
Bignosemac, as a side note, by fare avoidance what exactly do you mean? Splitting/Breaking journeys, longer journeys etc? Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: JayMac on December 29, 2011, 23:19:46 Ebrown. Yes, I was using the analogy that folks often apply to paying taxes. Evasion is illegal. Avoidance is acceptable. It may not be acceptable to those who lose out by that avoidance (ie, in this case TOCs) and some may question those avoidance tactics, but as long as they remain within rules and laws then as far as I'm concerned there's no problem.
Some fare avoidance techniques are widely known and publicised, such as split fares. Others utilise the myriad byzantine and esoteric rules that govern the contract between the train operator and passenger. As well as more general rules governed by contract law. It has to be remembered that the rules on ticketing are written in the main by the rail industry themselves, so to my mind they have no one but themselves to blame when passengers exploit the legitimate loopholes. I'll continue to impart the information I've learned in recent years, although some loopholes are probably the result of mistakes made by the rail industry. Those loopholes I'm less likely to share publicly, lest they be closed, but I will advise privately with the the necessary caveat that you may not get away with exploiting the particular loophole forever! There's been a fair few loopholes I've exploited in the past that are now closed, but I'm always finding more. It's a bit of a game. Just like tax avoidance. ;) And not to forget. Sometimes it isn't avoidance at all. The fares system is so complex that folks often end up confused and buying (or being sold) a ticket that is just the wrong (more expensive) one for their journey. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 29, 2011, 23:22:44 I know you and it doesn't surprise me.. :) Also I posted what I did as ChrisB had asked for the previous post to be removed (I think) by saying "Please Remove".. He seems to now have removed his "Please Remove" comment which now makes what I wrote seem a bit strange.. oh well.. ::) (I'm pretty sure I didn't dream it up ;D) I know bignosemac, too - and he still often surprises me. ::) And I rather think, Jo, that I removed ChrisB's post, as he had requested, simultaneously with you replying to it ... ;). However, rather than confuse matters any further, I suggest we let things stand. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on December 29, 2011, 23:25:19 aah ok.. I assumed he'd wanted the post prior to his to be removed...I did wonder but had to make an informative guess.. silly me.. :)
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Btline on December 29, 2011, 23:49:59 I would like to point out that I do not support fare evasion. I do believe that the "fares strike" did highlight issues. Of course, most people on "strike" ended up paying anyway, as the barrier staff wouldn't let them onto Bath's platform/ out of BRI until they'd paid.
Why all this secrecy? If they want effect, shouldn't they let people know. If they announce "fare strike tomorrow" on the 2nd, no-one will go. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on December 29, 2011, 23:57:43 My first day back in the office is the 3rd.. I'll be buying a ticket in advance of this :)
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: JayMac on December 30, 2011, 00:04:36 If it's a Season you are buying Jo then it may well make sense buying it dated from, at the latest, Jan 1st.
You will then get it at the pre- RPI+1% fares rise that kicks in on Jan 2nd. You just need to weigh up (get the calculator out!) whether 1 or 2 days less validity on that Season still represents a saving versus the increased prices valid from Jan 2nd. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 30, 2011, 00:07:01 You just need to weigh up (get the calculator out!) whether 1 or 2 days less validity on that Season still represents a saving versus the increased prices valid from Jan 2nd. (Cough). I believe Jo has a maths degree ... ? :P Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on December 30, 2011, 00:14:58 Ha Ha..
I think it depends on whether it's a weekly or monthly season ticket to decide if it's worth doing ...I will investigate... As for the calculator.. once you get to my age it's best not to rely on the brain (regardeless of degree ::) ::)) Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: JayMac on December 30, 2011, 00:24:23 As for the calculator.. once you get to my age it's best not to rely on the brain (regardeless of degree ::) ::)) Or apparently, failing to rely on spell check.... :P ;) ;D Really sorry Jo. I was momentarily possessed by TerminalJunkie.... :-X Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on December 30, 2011, 00:26:41 As for the calculator.. once you get to my age it's best not to rely on the brain (regardeless of degree ::) ::)) Or apparently, spell check.... :P ;) ;D Really sorry Jo. I was momentarily possessed by TerminalJunkie.... :-X Ha ha..in my defence I was typing very fast :-) Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 30, 2011, 00:27:46 Hmm. I'm almost inclined to move this topic to 'the lighter side' in view of the general tone ... ::)
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: EBrown on December 30, 2011, 01:10:04 Is there any information about this (potential) "protest"? I've tried signing up for more information; I am amazed AB1 2CD is validated as a postcode.
Anyway, any information will be greatly received, I am travelling through Paddington, Waterloo and St. Pancras (Intl) on the 3rd. :( Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Btline on December 30, 2011, 01:24:02 I think I'll sign up as well, I can't be delayed by any scrums For the purpose of this, do you mind EBrown if I take up residence with you at AB1 2CD? ;D :P
Why do they even want a postcode? So the DM can produce a shocking map showing the location of "frustrated commuters"? PS: Has anyone ordered the "materials". Will it be fares strike tickets? Tempted to order as it's free... (money coming from...?) Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: EBrown on December 30, 2011, 01:37:11 You can come and live with me! :)
I was tempted to see what these materials are but I would rather not give my actual name and address to them. (I don't even know who them is!) Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on December 30, 2011, 06:54:53 They won't. Not sufficient time to get up a hed of steam.
As I said, its been trailed as a IM/Twitter/email campaign, and I don't expect that to change at this late stage. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: TerminalJunkie on December 30, 2011, 08:48:45 (I don't even know who them is!) It's not that hard to find: Quote Registrant ID:MNTAB65359048 Registrant Name:Ellie Harrison Registrant Organization:bringbackbritishrail.org Registrant Street1:Flat 2 Registrant Street2: Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Glasgow Registrant State/Province:Lanarkshire Registrant Postal Code:G20 6NH Registrant Country:GB Registrant Phone:+44.7929565855 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX: Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:info@bringbackbritishrail.org I'm not sure why they bothered to hide the street name, as according to http://www.bringbackbritishrail.org/support-us/, it's 41 Lansdowne Crescent, Glasgow. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on December 30, 2011, 09:31:58 Is there any information about this (potential) "protest"? From - http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/media/30-dec-european-fares-rises Quote Campaign for Better Transport is taking part in a day of commuter action on January 3 when people will be tweeting, texting or calling George Osbourne to show their anger at fare rises. To take part go to www.farefail.org Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: EBrown on December 30, 2011, 19:01:14 It's not that hard to find: Erm, yes, I'm not stupid, I am studying Computer Science :). Thanks anyway; I am more concerned at the fact there is no Data Protection Statement, no clear structure etc.Sorry ChrisB, missed that. If it's just an e-campaign, that doesn't really bother me. Thank-you. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on December 31, 2011, 09:19:12 I've niw read that there's a press call at St Pancras, so I guess something is being arranged there.
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 01, 2012, 14:19:11 From the Sunday Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/292907/Thousands-join-rail-fares-revolt):
Quote THOUSANDS JOIN RAIL FARES REVOLT Thousands of protesters will this week stage a nationwide revolt against rail fare increases, with some prepared to break the law if necessary. As Britain returns to work after the holidays, commuters already struggling to meet travel costs are bracing themselves for an average six per cent increase. Some travellers will be paying as much as eight per cent more than they were before the Christmas break. Now passenger groups, campaigners, unions and environmentalists are joining together to show their anger at what they see as the great rail rip-off. Some opponents of the increases are using social media sites to register commuters^ discontent direct with Chancellor George Osborne. Others are advocating mass civil disobedience which could cause serious disruption at mainline stations in London and other major cities. From flash mobs organised via social networking sites to fare strikes where travellers refuse to show their tickets, tens of thousands of travellers will take the fight to the Government and train companies. Organisations involved in a commuter-led day of action on Tuesday include environmental campaigners Climate Rush, the transport union TSSA, and the Campaign for Better Transport. The call for ^fair fares^ will see protesters converge on St Pancras Station in London. Those who cannot be there are being called on to tweet, text or call Mr Osborne to show their anger at fare rises. A letter sent to national newspapers will also publicise the protest. The 22 signatories include MPs, actress Jenny Agutter, comedian Josie Long and celebrity chef Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall. Some of the groups within the protest coalition are hoping to channel rail users^ resentment into more direct action, including a fare strike and fare dodging. Tamsin Omond, of Climate Rush, said: ^We are expecting a lot of support on Tuesday because of the anger at what is happening. We want to harness that anger and build it up to a major day of action and civil diso^bedience on Thursday. Some of our supporters will be refusing to pay, but as well as fare dodging other people will be encouraged to go ^on strike^ and not to show their tickets.^ Tom Condon, of the TSSA, said details of any planned protests would not be made public ^until they happen^. He added: ^We will not advocate breaking the law but what we have planned at a number of London^s biggest stations will certainly cause problems.^ Last week the Campaign for Better Transport revealed some passengers are paying three and a half times more for their season tickets than in other European countries. The Association of Train Operating Companies says fare rises are necessary to continue much-needed investment in rail and Tube services. The Government is determined that passengers, rather than taxpayers, will bear more of the cost. The Department for Transport said: ^We recognise the pressure on family budgets and that^s why we announced that 2012 regulated rail fares will rise by an average of inflation plus one per cent.^ Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on January 01, 2012, 14:36:44 Oh no, Tamsin Omond, whose family has enough money to allow her to be a full-time climate protester & Palace of Westminster roof hugger
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Brucey on January 01, 2012, 14:38:25 On a lighter note, the latest one doing the rounds on Twitter, originally posted by @TrafailUpdates:
"BRITISH TRANSPORT POLICE: please note, a new offence of "whinging in possession of a season ticket" comes into force from 3 Jan." :D Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Btline on January 01, 2012, 22:17:46 Oh lor' it looks as if my tongue in cheek post is turning out out to be true! At least I'm going nowhere near St Pancras...
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on January 02, 2012, 09:03:55 If its anything like the last one last year at Waterloo, it'll be friendly! They only yelled while the cameras were rolling :-)
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on January 02, 2012, 19:04:18 Well I've just been to buy my ticket for this week.. No fare strike for me.. ;D
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on January 02, 2012, 21:46:28 Should've bought it yesterday, and got it pre-increase!
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: eightf48544 on January 03, 2012, 01:38:55 Re dummy Postcode unless you purchase the PAF (Postcode Address File) from the Post Office at a considerable price(plus update costs) there is no way of validating a Postcode.
Unless you look each one up manually and then you are only allowed a couple of free searches at a time. Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: adc82140 on January 03, 2012, 07:04:52 I don't get all the sensationalist headlines. It's long been an accepted fact that annual ticket holders renew on 31st December to get the previous year's fares. And when people mention increased fares and poor service, actually they don't increase if the service is poor- I'm paying 5% less than last year for that very reason.
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: EBrown on January 03, 2012, 07:42:54 ^2.25 increase on my "normal" (non work) ticket. Which represents a 7.86% increase. Not happy.
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: eightf48544 on January 03, 2012, 08:00:51 In actual fact I renewed my Annual Season ticket with an employer's loan in June.
Like adc82140 I was getting 5% disounts from around 2000 to 2005 so I was actually paying less in 2005 than the years previously, However, the service was pretty bad, the performace was around 80% which easily triggered the discount but it meant being late at least twice a week or 2 journeys out of 10. Always the night you wanted to be home promptly! What upset me though was that when I retired and didn't renew my saeson (I timed it to finish on my last day) I didn't get any compensation for the recent year June 2004/5. The discount I got on that ticket was for 2003/4. It's another case of people not thinking through all the sceanarios, you can endure a year of poor service which would trigger a discount but if you don't renew you are not compensated. I think I should have had 5% cash back on full price of my last ticket Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: grahame on January 03, 2012, 09:50:08 Re dummy Postcode unless you purchase the PAF (Postcode Address File) from the Post Office at a considerable price(plus update costs) there is no way of validating a Postcode. Unless you look each one up manually and then you are only allowed a couple of free searches at a time. Agreed if you want to check / validate the house number or name. But code point open data does allow you to check whether a postcode is valid, and indeed maps it to an OS grid reference. See https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/products/code-point-open/index.html Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on January 03, 2012, 11:59:12 I don't get all the sensationalist headlines. Because to get Govt (re)action, you have to first get these headlines in the press Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: paul7575 on January 03, 2012, 12:04:57 This 'same story every year' only exists because of the way railway fares are regulated.
If every supermarket chain, or public utility, saved up its price rises until Jan 2nd every year; and more importantly had announcements about such upcoming rises made in the budget and autumn statements, I guess rail fares would no longer get this treatment... Paul Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: ChrisB on January 03, 2012, 12:11:46 Well, it seems to be having some effect already!
From The Telegraph website (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/8988161/Ministers-ready-to-review-next-years-train-fare-rises.html) Quote Ministers ready to 'review' next year's train fare rises Ministers are ready to reconsider plans for steep train fare rises over the next two years, the Daily Telegraph can disclose. The price of rail season tickets, which are controlled by the Government, are due to rise by three per cent above inflation in 2013 and 2014 under current Treasury spending plans. But the Daily Telegraph has learned that these rises, which were announced shortly after the Coalition took office, are ^not set in stone^ and are being kept ^under constant review^. Commuters are already facing an average six per cent rise this week in the cost of their season tickets. The increase would have been higher but for the intervention of Justine Greening, shortly after she became Transport Secretary. Her predecessor, Philip Hammond, drew criticism when he described rail travel as a ^rich man^s toy^. However Ms Greening won a major concession from the Treasury and the increase was scaled back to one per cent above inflation rather than three per cent as originally planned. This meant that the cost of commuting, which is capped by the Government, rose by an average of six per cent, rather than eight per cent. However with commuters on some routes facing rises approaching 10 per cent, there has been mounting anger from passengers, despite the concession. Some are planning to block the Treasury^s switchboard in protest, while others are threatening to use Twitter to deluge George Osborne, the Chancellor, with tweets. As the next election approaches pressure is likely to increase for more Treasury support to water down the following two years^ fare rises. With the commuter belt housing many marginal constituencies, the issue of season ticket fare rises is likely to become politically sensitive. Ms Greening has sought to win commuters^ backing with a series of announcements including extra carriages for people travelling into London from the Sussex coast and returning one of Eurostar^s Waterloo platforms to domestic use. Nevertheless the cost of rail travel is also a difficult one for the Coalition with the Liberal Democrats having fought the election on a pledge to make it cheaper to use the trains. There is also understood to be some unease among Tory MPs at the political damage high fare rises could do in the run up to the next election. In the long term the Government says its plans improve the efficiency of the rail industry could make annual fare rises a thing of the past. But this will depend on implementing recommendations made by Sir Roy McNulty, who told the Government that there was scope to cut 30 per cent from rail^s running costs. The prospect of a rethink was welcomed by Stephen Joseph, chief executive of the Campaign for Better Transport. "Any suggestion that the Government may retreat on the eye-watering rail fares rises planned for future years will be welcomed by hard-pressed commuters, who are making their anger known today at this year's rise by blitzing the Treasury with phone calls, tweets and texts,^ he said. ^A retreat would also make good political sense: we've calculated that up to 50 marginal constituencies have high proportions of rail commuters and could be at risk at the next election". Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on January 03, 2012, 20:40:02 Should've bought it yesterday, and got it pre-increase! I was buying a weekly though.. Not sure paying for a day I didn't travel would have made too much sense or saved anything? Unless the increase was more than 1/5 of the price? In my defence I really don't know... Not that I can afford it before or after the rise.. I just don't have the time to work it all out ;D Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: JayMac on January 03, 2012, 21:11:40 It's all academic now Jo, maths degree or not! :P ;) ;D
But, with a fair wind, I'll be here at the the end of 2012 to offer my advice for savings when the next RPI+?% is on the cards.... .... can't offer any advice on how to deal with the lack of seats on commuter flows between Maidenhead and Paddington though! Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on January 03, 2012, 21:21:00 Us Maidenhead commuters aren't worried about lack of seats.. we just require enough space to stand up in and breath (hopefully) should we get on the train in the first place.. ;D ::)
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 03, 2012, 22:21:32 Look on the bright side ... if it was a Voyager, the trick would be to try to avoid breathing :o ::)
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: johoare on January 03, 2012, 22:24:03 Ha ha indeed.. I just think bignosemac got the wrong impression that occasionally we might get seats from Maidenhead... Well ok.. he may be right.. but you need to manage to push past all the other people who are pushing and then.. if you are really lucky.. and strong.. you may get one :-) ::)
Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: JayMac on January 03, 2012, 22:37:47 There's always the wonderful, luxurious 1st Class accommodation on the Turbos.....
:-X Title: Re: 3rd Jan: National day of action against fare rises! Post by: eightf48544 on January 04, 2012, 08:51:12 There's always the wonderful, luxurious 1st Class accommodation on the Turbos..... :-X Full of Standard class passengers! I always went in first if train was heaving due to disruption, cancellations etc. But not if running to time. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |