Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

The journey time calculator on the Crossrail website suggests it will take 1h 42m to get from Reading to Shenfield direct (with no loo!), so with short wait for a Colchester train, that would put the through journey time at around 2h30m.  Currently, allowing for transfer time, Reading to Paddington, tube, then Liverpool Street to Colchester takes between 2h15 and 2h30 minutes, so it's likely to be slower by Crossrail than it currently is, but not much slower.  That being said you can often 'beat the journey planner' on tube transfers if you get lucky with the underground.

Another option post-Crossrail is Reading to Liverpool Street by Crossrail is listed at 61 minutes, so with a good connection from there to Colchester you'd be looking at beating the 2 hour mark, and, as ChrisB the quickest way of all would likely be able to trim that down to around 1h45 with a fast train RDG^‡(resolve)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), Crossrail to LST then LST-COL fast train.

No shortage of options anyway!   

[Bmblbzzz]

Yes, certainly options! Good point about there being no loo on the Crossrail. I hadn't given any thought to the interior layout of the Crossrail trains, but I suppose they are essentially an overgrown tube or tram. Mind you, some of the Greater Anglia trains seem the same! 

[paul7575]

Yes, certainly options! Good point about there being no loo on the Crossrail. I hadn't given any thought to the interior layout of the Crossrail trains, but I suppose they are essentially an overgrown tube or tram. Mind you, some of the Greater Anglia trains seem the same! 

My theory is that they'll actually have a majority of a fairly traditional seating layout, albeit as you say there are no toilets.  They've announced that they'll have 450 seats in the 9 carriages, so an average of 50 seats, but although the carriages are slightly longer than originally expected at 22.5m or so, that length is taken up by a third set of doors each side.  So basically they need to get 50 seats in roughly the same space as a 20m car, and I believe that forces the majority of seats to be 2+2.   Many cars will need more seats, once a couple of them are slightly reduced in capacity to take wheelchairs, prams, and bikes etc.

LO 378s are usually held up as an example of what to expect, as they are fully longitudinal (very tube like) but they only average about 34 seats per 20m car.   Fitting 16 extra seats into a 378 would be quite a challenge...

Paul

[ChrisB]

How about the S-class underground Met Line stock?

[paul7575]

How about the S-class underground Met Line stock?

Yes, they get about 300 seats per 8 car, lets say 37 per car in a 'half and half' longitudinal and normal layout.  So is the 345 stock scaled up space capable of adding another 13 using a similar layout?   Perhaps, but it depends how much stand back space is required to give comfortable standing for the other 1050 passengers, I think.  But these are averages, you only need a couple of large multipurpose spaces and the 50 per car goes up to around 54 per normal car.  However they turn out though, I don't think they can be LO 378 clones, as many people have proposed.   Probably more like the Thameslink 700s than anything else.

Paul

[Electric train]

I hope it's ok if I ask a very basic question about Crossrail here. I can't think of another topic it would fit into, but it is quite basic!

Simply, how will Crossrail affect journeys to and more importantly across London from this part of the country? I presume that travelling to London you'll arrive at Paddington as now and onward travel will be via Tube, taxi or whatever, just as today. But sometimes I go to Colchester. (Yes, I admit to visiting Essex; I even have friends there!  ) At the moment this is usually train to Paddington, tube to Liverpool St then a horrible Greater Anglia service to Colchester. When Crossrail is done, will it be possible to use that from Paddington ^ or even from Reading ^ as far as Shenfield, thus hopefully missing out the very worst of the Essex commuter-line nightmare? Come to that, is Crossrail even to be accepting National Rail tickets or does it have its own ticketing system? Or a bit of both, like LU?

I dare say the answer is already in this thread, somewhere, but I'm afraid I haven't had time to wade through all of it.

I would suggest GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) (or whatever guise it will be at the time) to Padd then Crossrail to Stratford and pick up a train to Colchester

[SandTEngineer]

Here is an Autumn 2015 update on the construction of Paddington Crossrail station https://youtu.be/y5Nd9-OrSwQ

[Adelante_CCT]

I would suggest GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) (or whatever guise it will be at the time) to Padd then Crossrail to Stratford and pick up a train to Colchester

Personally I would do GWR to Pad, crossrail to Liverpool Street, then Abellio to Colchester, this gives you more time to get on the train and more choices of seats than boarding at Stratford, also services from Stratford are either slow or the semi-fasts stop at Chelmsford only, Liverpool Street has those same options plus the option of an hourly non-stopper.

Coming back however then unless catching the non-stopper, a change at Stratford may be more preferable rather than boarding a crossrail at Liverpool Street

[Electric train]

Here is an Autumn 2015 update on the construction of Paddington Crossrail station https://youtu.be/y5Nd9-OrSwQ

I look forward to using it occasional when I retire

[IndustryInsider]

Short article, complete with time-lapse video, of the progress over the final stage of the Stockley Flyover, which, when finished at Christmas next year, removes the conflicting moves at the junction.

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/crossrail-programme-reaches-major-milestone-10439808

Work can now continue with building the ramp up to the new flyover and installing the track and signalling.  The constrained nature of the site means it will take over twice as long to do than on a normal site, hence there still being another 13 months until it's finished.

[paul7575]

Short article, complete with time-lapse video, of the progress over the final stage of the Stockley Flyover, which, when finished at Christmas next year, removes the conflicting moves at the junction.

Odd way of describing the work, but as is often the case it is a direct copy of the Crossrail website news item.  They too report that they have positioned all those concrete beams to 'support the second ramp'. 

What they really should be saying is that the beams form the flyover deck that will carry the track over the reliefs towards the second ramp (for the route from the airport to the up main for Heathrow Express services).

Paul

[stuving]

Short article, complete with time-lapse video, of the progress over the final stage of the Stockley Flyover, which, when finished at Christmas next year, removes the conflicting moves at the junction.

Odd way of describing the work, but as is often the case it is a direct copy of the Crossrail website news item.  They too report that they have positioned all those concrete beams to 'support the second ramp'. 

What they really should be saying is that the beams form the flyover deck that will carry the track over the reliefs towards the second ramp (for the route from the airport to the up main for Heathrow Express services).

Paul

Google Earth's satellite view of this is from April 2015, just after they put the first of those beams in place. That was just when the new flyover was ready to use as a link to the UR, and the old flyover is of course staying. I think that the new connection from that to the DR has now been made, while the old link from the DM is temporarily left in place.

What you can also see is the narrow gap in which the support wall was built, and where the new ramp will be built next.

[paul7575]

What you can also see is the narrow gap in which the support wall was built, and where the new ramp will be built next.

A significant part of the retaining walls for the new ramp seem to be already in position - at least as viewed at speed from a passing HST^▸ (High Speed Train).  Presumably it will be another earth filled structure with the side walls made of prefabricated interlocking sections, linked together across the gap?

There is a good article showing the various work stages and eventual track layout here, (it may have been posted before, but not everyone will have seen it):  http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2014/12/20/photos-from-crossrails-huge-stockly-flyover/

Stage K (December 16) suggests there will still be a secondary route to the up main using the original flyover.  Normally the original flyover operates as down relief to airport only, having been built originally for airport to up main...

Paul

[SandTEngineer]

As sometimes its a bit difficult to find things (well I do anyway) here is the Stockley Viaduct works video link https://youtu.be/MDN1iMs2BZg

Warning:Time lapse videos such as this do cause flashing images to be displayed at times

Don't you sometimes wish all railway new works could be done that quick

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, certainly options! Good point about there being no loo on the Crossrail. I hadn't given any thought to the interior layout of the Crossrail trains, but I suppose they are essentially an overgrown tube or tram. Mind you, some of the Greater Anglia trains seem the same! 

My theory is that they'll actually have a majority of a fairly traditional seating layout, albeit as you say there are no toilets.  They've announced that they'll have 450 seats in the 9 carriages, so an average of 50 seats, but although the carriages are slightly longer than originally expected at 22.5m or so, that length is taken up by a third set of doors each side.  So basically they need to get 50 seats in roughly the same space as a 20m car, and I believe that forces the majority of seats to be 2+2.   Many cars will need more seats, once a couple of them are slightly reduced in capacity to take wheelchairs, prams, and bikes etc.

LO 378s are usually held up as an example of what to expect, as they are fully longitudinal (very tube like) but they only average about 34 seats per 20m car.   Fitting 16 extra seats into a 378 would be quite a challenge...

Paul

Looks like Paul's theory, which I've always subscribed to, will be just about right:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3326946/First-look-UK-s-Crossrail-trains-air-conditioned-Wi-Fi-enabled-room-1-500-passengers.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Looks like a nice interior from these concept pictures, though I believe one or two toilets per 9-car train would not have been asking too much.