Bad morning

[whole diary]

[willc]

0643 was 80min  late at Oxford. Both new departure boards lost the train when over an hour late, showing the next train as the 0952 On time....it was cancelled. 0835 was missing and eventually departed around 0955 and called at Hanboroughin addition to replace the cancelled train

What happened to the 09.52 (09.29 from Moreton-in-Marsh) was that although it was ready to go on time from Moreton, it was sensibly held back to run in the path from Moreton (d 09.50) of the cancelled 08.58 from Malvern, including the Hanborough stop. Had it left Moreton at 09.29, it would have just spent 20 minutes sat at Ascott-under-Wychwood waiting for the 08.22 from London to Hereford to clear the single line after being delayed by the 06.43. Holding the 09.29 back made good sense, as we picked up a good few passengers at Moreton who were presumably aiming to get the 09.50.

Why on earth the 06.43 called at Hanborough, I have no idea, as nothing is booked to stop there southbound between the halts train and the 08.58, which, in its revised guise, duly called on time at 10.15 and picked up half-a-dozen people. The 09.29 from Moreton (09.52 CBY) does not call at Hanborough.

Speaking to a member of staff about what happened to the 09.29 yesterday, I understand that although there was a driver at Oxford for the ecs, there was no guard and the stock then got nicked anyway to cover another duty - all this happened before 9am, so why wasn't the website updated?

[SDS]

From what I heard it was an issue in First Class but to my knowledge it wasn't staff.

Pax refused to pay upgrade to First Class then became abusive to TM^‡(resolve). TM refused to take train forward.

[willc]

From what I heard it was an issue in First Class but to my knowledge it wasn't staff.

Pax refused to pay upgrade to First Class then became abusive to TM^‡(resolve). TM refused to take train forward.

Now I may have a jaded view of proceedings after being delayed on my way home, but surely the more proportionate response would be to call the police and keep the train doors locked until the offending party was arrested and removed by them, rather than the offending party apparently getting off scot-free and a lot of other people having their journeys disrupted.

For a tm to be so angry and upset about an incident would suggest the abuse was at a level that could result in a public order charge for using threatening, abusive or insulting words to someone carrying out a public service (section 4, 1967 Criminal Justice Act).

An arrest in front of lots of people at a railway station would be fairly humiliating, appearing in court and getting a criminal record more so, and the word would get out that the railway takes this kind of incident seriously, as well as potentially deterring people from trying it on in first class - though a few blitzes by a hit squad of half-a-dozen RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) at all times of the day and night would probably achieve that in a more direct manner than the judicial process.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Writing in a personal capacity (that is, not in my admin role): I agree with every word of willc's post above.

CfN. 

[inspector_blakey]

Whilst I tend to agree with the spirit of the two posts above, it's not quite that straightforward. Even if the offending passenger was removed at Oxford, the encounter may have left the conductor sufficiently shaken up that they didn't feel fit to continue. If that was the case then I'd support their decision completely; the safety-critical parts of their job require full attention and concentration which isn't necessarily easy if you're running a recent traumatic event over and over in your mind. From personal experience, incidents like that can do funny things to your mind and your concentration; until you've experienced something along those lines it might seem that you'd definitely be able to carry on with the job, but the reality can be somewhat different.

Sounds like the main problem here was the lack of a spare conductor at Oxford who could have relieved the original one and taken the train forward.

[Oxman]

There was another incident of abuse of a Train Manager recorded that same evening on an up Cotswold train, although in this case it did not result in the train being terminated. I only mention this because it serves to illustrate how common abuse is nowadays. And it is not confined to drunks and louts - there are plenty of so called respectable people who will use their intellect to have a go, if the mood takes them.

I agree with the Inspector - I would not like to be conveyed on a mode of transport where one of the persons responsible for the safety of the operation was not able to concentrate on his/her work.

[Ollie]

Unfortunately abuse from customers seems to be a daily occurance.

[SDS]

Knowing who the TM^‡(resolve) was, it must have been pretty bad abuse for them to refuse to take the train further.

<rant>
Now most people would think that is unreasonable for the TM to refuse to take the train further and disrupt other passengers, however what is unreasonable is that passengers can continuously abuse us railway staff day in day out and expect to get away with it. Think about the TM, not yourself for once who maybe late because of it.
</end rant>

Dont forget there's easier (common) laws to use on railway property.
Railway Regulation Act 1840 S16
Regulation of the Railways Act 1889 S5

Then of course you have the new public order offences, S4, S4A and S5 Public Order Act 1986.


Disclaimer, im not a lawyer, blah blah blah

[willc]

Now most people would think that is unreasonable for the TM^‡(resolve) to refuse to take the train further and disrupt other passengers

Yes, I do. And after a morning when the railways let me down, with FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s website providing incorrect information about the state of services, showing my train as running on time when the ecs had been cancelled at Oxford, the evening cancellation was pretty much the last straw for me.

what is unreasonable is that passengers can continuously abuse us railway staff day in day out and expect to get away with it

Unfortunately, what was an opportunity to do something about it - ie a prosecution, with the attendant publicity, which might get the idea across that it is not a good idea to abuse railway staff, was lost. I don't doubt abuse is a constant problem for staff but letting people in incidents like this get off scot-free will not do anything to stop it. It may be difficult for the staff involved for the situation to be prolonged waiting for the police and it may delay a train, but unless arrests are made and court cases happen, nothing will change. So yes, I am thinking about the tm and the rest of you. And sadly, court cases, with all the time and cost that involves, is what it will take if you want the abuse to stop.

[JayMac]

I've not seen anything in this thread to say that the abusive passenger that led to the train being caped wasn't arrested. Do you know for definite that this passenger was let off 'scot-free'?

I've witnessed myself someone not getting off 'scot free' after abusing a staff member on a train approaching Oxford:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8021.msg80508#msg80508

[willc]

Train arrives, doors opened immediately, tm gets out of TGS at far end of train from first class and walks off. Train cancelled announcement made on PA^▸ (Public Address) after five minutes sitting in platform. None of which suggested to me that anyone at Oxford had been forewarned of the situation, nor was waiting for the police before releasing the doors.

[JayMac]

Ah.... quite possible the miscreant did get away then. In the incident I witnessed, the n'er-do-well decided to hide on the train when he could've quite easily legged it as the doors were released on arrival also.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm.  A recent incident that I witnessed was perhaps a textbook example of what should happen, in such cases:

On a train from Bridgwater to Bristol - the conductor (quite a character - well built male) carried out ticket checks between Highbridge and Weston.  He was given verbal abuse by a young female passenger when he reached the very front of the train (2 car 150).  She stormed off to the back of the train, while he merely sat down, phoned on his mobile and asked whether BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) could meet the train at Weston.  Perhaps remarkably, BTP were indeed on site at Weston, so when we arrived there, he opened just the front pair of doors, explained what had happened, and accompanied the BTP officer down through the train to where the offender was identified and arrested.

Total delay: about five minutes - well worth it, just for the entertainment value for the other passengers, I thought! 

[inspector_blakey]

Now most people would think that is unreasonable for the TM^‡(resolve) to refuse to take the train further and disrupt other passengers

Yes, I do. And after a morning when the railways let me down, with FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s website providing incorrect information about the state of services, showing my train as running on time when the ecs had been cancelled at Oxford, the evening cancellation was pretty much the last straw for me.

I can understand your irritation in the circumstances, but the fact remains that if the guard concerned did not feel fit to continue (a call which is theirs to make, and theirs alone given the responsibility inherent in the job) the miscreant being hauled off the train by BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) and prosecuted still wouldn't have meant that your train ran.

Another potential issue is that keeping a train sitting in the down platform at Oxford with the doors locked awaiting police attendance stops any traffic from using that platform for the duration, potentially causing a much greater overall inconvenience to passengers using XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and other FGW services up to Banbury than the issue caused by simply terminating your train there.

Please understand, I'm not suggesting that this situation was dealt with perfectly by any means. But the crux is that if the guard felt unfit to continue then regardless of anyone being arrested the train still would not have run unless there was a spare guard available.

[willc]

While I have every sympathy, I would suggest that if a confrontation looks like getting out of hand, the best thing to do would be walk away and take steps to get the police to deal with it, like the case Chris observed, not let it get to the point where you are so upset/angry that you walk off the job - leaving behind the train and passengers that, as you keep pointing out, a tm is responsible for.

I don't think the operational issues were exactly uppermost in the tm's mind at the time - and in any case the train was on the platform for 15 minutes or so, while the station staff and control first worked out what had just happened, then decided what to do and finally got everyone off the train, by which time the signaller had used the bidirectional signalling on platform 1 to route the following York train past the 17.50 and then allow a Banbury train past a terminating HST^▸ (High Speed Train) while that was sat in platform 2.