Couple penalty fared for misusing Advance tickets, go running to the press...

[whole diary]

[Brucey]

After todays headline news about the couple PF^▸ (Penalty Fare)'d for ^56 each, just don't stop short on a Megatrain ticket...  

I would have expected them to be given an excess fare (plus ^10), assuming a Megatrain ticket is classified as an advance ticket.

SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector, or Retail Price Index, depending on context) seem to be out in force at the unbarriered stations at the moment.  Cosham was targeted last week, with several PCSOs also present.

Although I did spot one major flaw ... they didn't block the bridge, so you could simply walk up the steps from the platform side then back down again on the road side

[super tm]

After todays headline news about the couple PF^▸ (Penalty Fare)'d for ^56 each, just don't stop short on a Megatrain ticket...  

I would have expected them to be given an excess fare (plus ^10), assuming a Megatrain ticket is classified as an advance ticket.

That option is only available if you go to the ticket office before you travel. This is a risk you do run if you stop short on an advance ticket.  It is only for the journey stated otherwise you will be treated as having no ticket so penalty fare rules can apply.

[Brucey]

That option is only available if you go to the ticket office before you travel. This is a risk you do run if you stop short on an advance ticket.  It is only for the journey stated otherwise you will be treated as having no ticket so penalty fare rules can apply.

Really?  The NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) says

If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station
when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess
fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of
the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to
start, break and resume, or end your journey at that station on the service(s) you have
used.

Might be a good idea if a moderator could split the last few posts from this thread as it has gone wildly off topic!

[super tm]

That option is only available if you go to the ticket office before you travel. This is a risk you do run if you stop short on an advance ticket.  It is only for the journey stated otherwise you will be treated as having no ticket so penalty fare rules can apply.

Really?  The NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) says

If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station
when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess
fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of
the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to
start, break and resume, or end your journey at that station on the service(s) you have
used.

Might be a good idea if a moderator could split the last few posts from this thread as it has gone wildly off topic!

Correct. In this case the lowest price fare is the penalty fare as charged.

[paul7575]

That option is only available if you go to the ticket office before you travel. This is a risk you do run if you stop short on an advance ticket.  It is only for the journey stated otherwise you will be treated as having no ticket so penalty fare rules can apply.

Really?  The NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) says

If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station
when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess
fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of
the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to
start, break and resume, or end your journey at that station on the service(s) you have
used.

That is overidden by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) Cof C 12(b).  The 'certain other types of tickets' provision.

Paul

[inspector_blakey]

Picked up by the Railway Eye.

The upshot goes something like this: couple book Advance purchase tickets to Southampton for GBP 6.00 each. Couple evidently do not read terms and conditions (or choose not to understand them). Couple alight two stops early at Eastleigh. Couple are, correctly according to a strict interpretation of the rules, penalty fared to the tune of GBP 57.00, twice the standard single fare of GBP 28.50, each. Couple go crying to the press. Although it would seem that no-one except that august organ Yahoo! news (I know, who...?) is interested.

Call me harsh but I reckon the Fact Compiler has called this one wrong - my opinions tend to align with the subsequent comments on the blog post. The terms and conditions for advance purchase tickets are freely available and very, very simple to understand. They are valid for the exact journey printed on the ticket, nothing else. That raelly is all you need to know, and it really is not difficult. Although it may have been rather severe for SWT^▸ (South West Trains) to levy the full penalty fare in the circumstances, according to the penalty fares rules and conditions of carriage they were absolutely within their rights to do so.

I get really irritated when people who can't or won't bother to find out what they're actually buying make a mistake and then go running to the media when they suffer the consequences...

[Mookiemoo]

See  I had a dilemma today - mainly due to SWT^▸ (South West Trains)

I was on the 1400 BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) to RDG^▸ (Rail Delivery Group, or Reading station, depending on context)

IF it gets in on time you can make the 1512 SWT departure to bracknell - which I did.

but if you don't, you get the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) gatwick to crowthorne

Discussed with TM^▸ (Train Manager, or possibly Ticket Machine, depending on context) at swindon and we were on time but no point in buying ticket as had no idea where I wanted to get a ticket to.  Got on train, another none revenue trained SWT guard

Was debating en route whether to get of at wokingham with no barriers but no, I went on to bracknell where I was expecting a stand up row to avoid a penalty ticket.  barrier open.  Walked up to ticket office - asked for a single from RDG to bracknell and got told it was a penalty fare - no countenance for the fact I could have got of earlier etc etc if I were evading.  Pointed out the taxi rank is over there and since I was land side of barriers, she could call the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) but I'd be long gone before they get there

Gave her the option of sell me the ticket or ....

she refused

I walked - first time ever

SWT lost 3.10 but I'll be damned if I was paying ^20 under those circs

[vacman]

Good on you on that one FA, no way should someone who is honest enough to go up to the ticket office after they have travelled and could easily have walked off be PF^▸ (Penalty Fare)'d!

[Chris from Nailsea]

As suggested by a member, I've split some earlier posts off from another topic - and added them here, for clarity and continuity.

CfN. 

[Btline]

Well done, wish I'd been there! Shame you couldn't have taken a photo* of the look on her face when you walked! (on your iPhone)
_{*Disclaimer, this is a joke.}

[JayMac]

The terms and conditions for advance purchase tickets are freely available and very, very simple to understand. They are valid for the exact journey printed on the ticket, nothing else. That raelly is all you need to know, and it really is not difficult. Although it may have been rather severe for SWT^▸ (South West Trains) to levy the full penalty fare in the circumstances, according to the penalty fares rules and conditions of carriage they were absolutely within their rights to do so.

I get really irritated when people who can't or won't bother to find out what they're actually buying make a mistake and then go running to the media when they suffer the consequences...

The terms and conditions for Advance Purchase may indeed be very clear but take a look at the T&Cs that you accept when purchasing a Megatrain ticket:

http://uk.megabus.com/terms.aspx

Just one line that says 'Bookings are only valid on the journey(s) and places stated.' (Which ain't exactly great English!) That line comes three-quarters of the way through the T&Cs (some 2000 words!), after a disclaimer, website use, cookies, legal identity, copyright and trademark, applicable law and a privacy policy.

Absolutely no mention of the dire consequences of travelling short. The only mention of Penalty Fares is in relation to travel without a valid NUS Extra card when a ticket has been purchased with the NUS Extra discount. Reference is made to rail travel being subject to National Rail Conditions of Carriage but the link offered takes you to the NRE^▸ (National Rail Enquiries) 'Train Times & Tickets' page.

So, in my opinion, the couple were harshly treated and the Terms & Conditions which they accepted are not explicit enough with regard to the potential for Penalty Fares. Full Anytime Single should've been the 'fine' IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion').

[Mookiemoo]

IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion') not even that

The diff between what they paid and the cheapest walk on they could have got

I know ita not in the manual butbits common sense

[paul7575]

IMHO^▸ ('in my humble opinion') not even that

The diff between what they paid and the cheapest walk on they could have got

I know ita not in the manual butbits common sense

That's patently ridiculous. If the worst you would ever pay was as you suggest, 'the cheapest walk on they could of got',  no-one would ever need to bother buying a ticket at all....

Paul

[Mookiemoo]

 But then I work on the theory you should be able to buy tickets on board etc - i.e. presumption of innocence

[bigdaz]

Would not have seemed sensible for the couple to have ridden to to Souhampton Central and bought 2 x CDS^▸ (Off Peak Day Single [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')) back to Eastleigh.  May have taken 30 mins, but the Megatrain fare + 2 x CDS would have been cheaper than the walk on fare anyway!

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious??