Request stops

[whole diary]

[grahame]

WikiPedia lists 125 ...

Questions. 

1. Are there (still) any stations where some trains always stop but others call on request only or are the all or nothing these days? 

2. Where do (any) stats about how many trains call come from, and what is the basis of such stats - where does an originally timetabled train that does not run count? 

[brooklea]

1. Are there (still) any stations where some trains always stop but others call on request only or are the all or nothing these days? 

I wouldn’t have thought so. Sounds like a recipe for trouble. Has that ever been the case anywhere that you know of?

I don’t know how set down only stops are/have been dealt with in the past, but I assume that is not what is being asked about here.

[grahame]

1. Are there (still) any stations where some trains always stop but others call on request only or are the all or nothing these days? 

I wouldn’t have thought so. Sounds like a recipe for trouble. Has that ever been the case anywhere that you know of?

I don’t know how set down only stops are/have been dealt with in the past, but I assume that is not what is being asked about here.

Answering my own question ... I now wonder about Corrour where as I recall the sleeper calls on request but the Scotrail services call whether or not there are passengers ... is that still the case?

[brooklea]

The Caledonian Sleepers are an unusual case for sure. As they are (by and large) pre-booked only, I understand they may only stop where they have passengers to pick up or set down. From personal experience, I’ve known the Edinburgh to Euston service not call to set down at Watford Junction.

I was initially thinking more of Dilton Marsh for example, imagining a scenario where GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) treated it as a request stop, but SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) made it a booked call (I don’t think SWR/SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have ever called at Dilton Marsh?).

[grahame]

I was initially thinking more of Dilton Marsh for example, imagining a scenario where GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) treated it as a request stop, but SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) made it a booked call (I don’t think SWR/SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have ever called at Dilton Marsh?).

Indeed. SWR/SWT keep the front door of their 158s and 159s - just behind the driver - locked for security reasons, and the short platform at DMH^» (Dilton Marsh - next trains) would make train access difficult.  They very nearly stopped there at one point - it was in the draft timetables, but the safety and security on their trains put a stop to the idea, I understand, and of course safety and security come first.  I have never understood the differences between SWR and GWR 158s that make this a security / safety issue for one but not the other.

[brooklea]

Going back a few years, to when GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) used to borrow one of SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)’s 158s to run up and down between Swindon and Cheltenham, I recall that the unit used to head back south as a Cheltenham to Southampton service via the TransWilts, which will have called (on request) at Dilton Marsh, so obviously it’s not technically impossible to overcome.

[Timmer]

I can confirm that I have travelled on a what was then a SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service that DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) call at Dilton Marsh. It was during a weekend when there was engineering work taking place.

An early morning service stopped there in the Salisbury direction with an evening service starting at Basingstoke calling there. I travelled from Waterloo changing at Basingstoke. Both the guard and the driver were at a loss to explain why it was decided to add Dilton Marsh to two SWT services that day. I don’t think it’s happened since.

[TaplowGreen]

Lympstone Commando?

[ChrisB]

Indeed. SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)/SWT^▸ (South West Trains) keep the front door of their 158s and 159s - just behind the driver - locked for security reasons, and the short platform at DMH^» (Dilton Marsh - next trains) would make train access difficult.  They very nearly stopped there at one point - it was in the draft timetables, but the safety and security on their trains put a stop to the idea, I understand, and of course safety and security come first.  I have never understood the differences between SWR and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) 158s that make this a security / safety issue for one but not the other.

It's a Covid issue, not security at all. It was locked out of use at the start of the pandemic & the drivers/union insist on it being kept that way.

[Hafren]

A few current and past interesting cases...

On the Heart of Wales Line, there are numerous stations that are request stops in one direction but not the other, because of the need to stop in one direction for crossings.  However in the non-request direction I get the impression that some guards still prefer to know who's getting off there. That makes sense at FFairfach, for example, because of the short platform, so even in the non-request direction I assume not all doors are released when it's a 2 car train.

On the Pembroke Dock branch, Manorbier is not a request stop, despite the other halts (several of which are busier) being so. This is probably because it has a crossing requiring trains to stop, but unlike in the above examples the simpler solution of being a mandatory stop in both directions is used. However some crews seem to treat it as a request stop in the down direction, or at least have done in the past (I haven't been that way as often post-Covid and haven't noticed this happening for a while). Personally I'm not a fan of this, as a passenger could be caught out - especially as it's the sort of route where someone could have a ticket to somewhere further along in order to walk in the area, and therefore might not be picked up by the guard if they didn't hear the announcement to request the stop.

I've seen timetables where the last train of the day stops on request, including on suburban routes where passengers wouldn't necessarily be familiar with the idea. However I'm not aware of anywhere it happens now. An example is the last train from Cardiff to Barry Island, prior to the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) timetable recast, so about 20 years ago.

Re the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)/SWT^▸ (South West Trains) door arrangement, I was convinced it was happening before Covid, and had a little look around, and found some references on RailUK Forums from years ago. It looks like it was done so that the driver could safely leave the train when needed, e.g. to access signal post telephones, in third rail areas. This doesn't completely separate SWR from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) operations, of course, as GWR operates 158s (and sometimes previously 153s) to Portsmouth, but I suppose the probability of it happening is higher on the SWR units.

[Marlburian]

Indeed. SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)/SWT^▸ (South West Trains) keep the front door of their 158s and 159s - just behind the driver - locked for security reasons, and the short platform at DMH^» (Dilton Marsh - next trains) would make train access difficult.  They very nearly stopped there at one point - it was in the draft timetables, but the safety and security on their trains put a stop to the idea, I understand, and of course safety and security come first.  I have never understood the differences between SWR and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) 158s that make this a security / safety issue for one but not the other.

It's a Covid issue, not security at all. It was locked out of use at the start of the pandemic & the drivers/union insist on it being kept that way.

Several years ago, the delayed Tilehurst-Didcot service was billed to stop at all stations. But it ran fast to Didcot, causing some consternation among those of us who wanted to get off at intermediate stations. One youth ran up to the driver's door and started banging on it - dunno if he expected the train to reverse. At Didcot the driver remained in the cab until most passengers had dispersed.

[plymothian]

Dockyard - request stop for Gunnislake trains; compulsory stop for Cornish trains.