Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 16:15 30 Dec 2024
 
- Replacement 'green' ferry emits more CO2 than old diesel ship
- What we know so far about the Jeju Air crash
- The driver who 'jumped' his bus over the Tower Bridge gap
* Gatwick flights returning to normal after fog
- Avanti West Coast strike to hit New Year's Eve trains
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 01/01/25 - Railway 200 'Whistle Up' UK
09/01/25 - Bath Railway Society
24/01/25 - Westbury Station reopens
24/01/25 - LTP4 Wilts / Consultation end

On this day
30th Dec (1956)
Liverpool Overhead Railway closed (link)

Train RunningShort Run
10:50 Penzance to Cardiff Central
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 30, 2024, 16:22:05 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[128] The Wider Picture - making it wider, but also clearer, hopeful...
[97] Working from roam: more people logging on from UK airports and...
[55] Weekend of 28th/29th December - Coffee Shop offline for engine...
[51] Terrible signalling error!
[44] Southern Railway to axe toilets from new train (BBC News 19/09...
[29] 'Railway 200' events and commemorations 2025
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7
  Print  
Author Topic: Get Britain Moving - Labour's plans to fix Britain's Railways  (Read 19332 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 43000



View Profile WWW Email
« on: June 16, 2024, 08:01:55 »

"Get Britain Moving - Labour's plans to fix Britain's Railways"

Document at
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/GETTING-BRITAIN-MOVING-Labours-Plan-to-Fix-Britains-Railways.pdf

Mirrored on the Coffee Shop for posterity (or at least as long as there is coffee!!) at http://www.passenger.chat/mirror/GETTING-BRITAIN-MOVING-Labours-Plan-to-Fix-Britains-Railways.pdf
and I have "whitelisted" it so that guests as well as members can access it.

With Labour having a strong chance of becoming the government in a few weeks, this document might well be an important pointer to the future.  Past form of all governments is to veer away from aspirations published in the lead up to elections, so "we will see".

In the introduction, Shadow Transport Minister Louise Haigh writes:

Quote
Labour’s vision is to deliver a unified and simplified rail system that relentlessly focuses on securing improved services for passengers and better value for money for taxpayers.

As Secretary of State, I won’t be running the operation of the railways day to day, but I will be the passenger-in-chief, setting the strategy to improve our railways and making sure it delivers against our six key objectives:
1. Reliable – so that people can have confidence in their journey, whether it’s a one-off trip or their daily commute.
2. Affordable – so that prices are kept, wherever possible, at a point that works for both passengers and taxpayers.
3. Efficient – so that people know that their journey will be as straightforward as possible, from booking to travel, and to provide better value for the travelling public and taxpayer alike.
4. Quality – so that passengers have the service experience they have a right to expect.
5. Accessible – so that our railways are available for everyone to use.
6. Safe – so that people don’t worry about their safety on the railway and are not in fear of accidents or crime while travelling.

The document - totalling some 28 pages - criticises the current setup / situation and suggests / describes mechanisms with which the would / might be addressed.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 43000



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2024, 08:22:17 »

Covered and commented on The Independent

On fares

Quote
I was alarmed to see that the first specific improvement listed under “Labour’s vision for passengers” is: “Automatic delay and cancellation refunds”. Britain’s rail passengers are not looking for easier ways to get their money back – they want delays and cancellations to be reduced. Tackling the symptoms rather than the causes is not good enough.

Ms Haigh also promises “a best fare guarantee for passengers”. That’s more like it: ensuring nobody pays more than they need to. Those of us who depend on the railway want to see it succeed commercially.

For that to happen, more people need to be attracted to trains. Besides making rail more reliable, the best way to lure people back is to bestow confidence they are getting the best deal. And the only way to do that is a comprehensive overhaul of the fares system.

Otherwise, the government would be in the embarrassing position of having to hand back cash to every passenger who, for example, foolishly buys a Bristol-London ticket rather than “splitting” the journey at Didcot Parkway.

For decades the “Didcot Dodge” has been a fixture on the Great Western Railway. So long as the Bristol-London train stops at the Oxfordshire junction (and most do), passengers typically save 40 per cent. Countless other anomalies need fixing.

and on infratructure needs whilst saving money

Quote
The biggest promise of all from the transport shadow: “Saving billions of pounds for taxpayers every year.” We really need to know how that will be done. At the heart of Britain’s railway woes: the shocking state of infrastructure. We need more investment, not less.

I have only skim-read but in my skim I noted no commitment to service frequency nor to maintaining or perhaps growing the network.   Thin on electrification plans too.

Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 13003


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2024, 19:27:01 »

I wonder how much all the TOCs (Train Operating Company) management fees add up to in any given year - they'll start saving those.

I also wonder whether, if Labour do succeed, and confirmation of this plan is in the King's speech, the TOCs might start to hand in their keys early - weighing whether that fee is worth chasing over running their contract.
Logged
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1727



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2024, 22:16:52 »

Quote
I wonder how much all the TOCs (Train Operating Company)▸ management fees add up to in any given year - they'll start saving those.

I also wonder whether, if Labour do succeed, and confirmation of this plan is in the King's speech, the TOCs might start to hand in their keys early - weighing whether that fee is worth chasing over running their contract.

If they do, that indicates that the profit over and above costs of running their operation (which will still have to be met by the successor body) is slim, and the savings will not be much!
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 13003


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2024, 14:25:13 »

Actually, that is a reasonable point!
Logged
Noggin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 560


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2024, 15:06:11 »

I wonder how much all the TOCs (Train Operating Company) management fees add up to in any given year - they'll start saving those.

I also wonder whether, if Labour do succeed, and confirmation of this plan is in the King's speech, the TOCs might start to hand in their keys early - weighing whether that fee is worth chasing over running their contract.

But it's also arguable that TOCs save money by providing a reality check. Ultimately the books have to balance, a tight ship has to be run and a whole range of stakeholders have to be kept happy. It might seem an expensive way to do things, but so too are harebrained the ideas of politicians and civil servants with points to prove and other people's money (Mr Baker and the IETs (Intercity Express Train) anyone?) and we know what damage Treasury parsimony and budget freezes can cause long-term. 

Historically, what has happened in nationalised British industries is that the operational people are sidelined by politicians and civil servants, with disastrous results. I seem to recall that within a couple of years of nationalisation, the GWR (Great Western Railway) drivers were petitioning Downing Street saying that they had no confidence in their new management, much to the horror of the trade unions of the day.
Logged
infoman
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1477


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2024, 04:24:29 »

Maybe the Northern power house should get their butts into gear,by providing proper tickets be installed at Chesterfield,Rotherham, Doncaster Preston Barnsley and Sheffield.

The reason the trains are so busy in that neck of the woods,is that on board revenue checks cannot be carried out properly.
Logged
a-driver
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1105


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2024, 20:21:11 »

"Get Britain Moving - Labour's plans to fix Britain's Railways"

Document at
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/GETTING-BRITAIN-MOVING-Labours-Plan-to-Fix-Britains-Railways.pdf

Mirrored on the Coffee Shop for posterity (or at least as long as there is coffee!!) at http://www.passenger.chat/mirror/GETTING-BRITAIN-MOVING-Labours-Plan-to-Fix-Britains-Railways.pdf
and I have "whitelisted" it so that guests as well as members can access it.

With Labour having a strong chance of becoming the government in a few weeks, this document might well be an important pointer to the future.  Past form of all governments is to veer away from aspirations published in the lead up to elections, so "we will see".

In the introduction, Shadow Transport Minister Louise Haigh writes:

Quote
Labour’s vision is to deliver a unified and simplified rail system that relentlessly focuses on securing improved services for passengers and better value for money for taxpayers.

As Secretary of State, I won’t be running the operation of the railways day to day, but I will be the passenger-in-chief, setting the strategy to improve our railways and making sure it delivers against our six key objectives:
1. Reliable – so that people can have confidence in their journey, whether it’s a one-off trip or their daily commute.
2. Affordable – so that prices are kept, wherever possible, at a point that works for both passengers and taxpayers.
3. Efficient – so that people know that their journey will be as straightforward as possible, from booking to travel, and to provide better value for the travelling public and taxpayer alike.
4. Quality – so that passengers have the service experience they have a right to expect.
5. Accessible – so that our railways are available for everyone to use.
6. Safe – so that people don’t worry about their safety on the railway and are not in fear of accidents or crime while travelling.

The document - totalling some 28 pages - criticises the current setup / situation and suggests / describes mechanisms with which the would / might be addressed.

And no doubt Louise Haigh will be the sole judge of their performance!
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 43000



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2024, 02:50:24 »

And no doubt Louise Haigh will be the sole judge of their performance!

No - the document does suggest that the ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about), Transport Focus and the Rail Ombudsman should be merged:

Quote
Great British Railways will not be marking its own homework. Alongside the accountability measures available to the Secretary of State to drive improvements for passengers, and continued safety regulation by the Office of Rail and Road, a powerful new passenger watchdog – the Passenger Standards Authority – will independently monitor standards and champion improvement in service performance against a range of measures.

The new watchdog will consolidate the customer-focused regulatory and other functions of the Office of Rail and Road, Transport Focus and the Rail Ombudsman to bring a relentless focus within one independent body in the interests of rail passengers, alongside its responsibilities for other parts of the transport system.
In terms of rail, it will have the power to demand service improvement plans, inspect the performance of Great British Railways with information gathering powers and assess performance fairly and transparently against published data.

[snip]

By bringing these functions and expertise together, passengers will have a one-stop- shop where their interests are protected, where they can get advice, have unresolved complaints addressed and where rights and standards are monitored and reported publicly and transparently.

However, that final paragraph looks, to my mind, toothless. The only sanction is to report and embarrass through publicity.   With a nationalised system, though, it's hard to know what teeth could be applied without scoring an own goal.   I am reminded of Network Rail being fined millions over Carmont - taking money away from the rail industry that was - err - very much needed to be spent on actions to prevent another Carmont.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7367


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2024, 17:16:30 »

And Louise Haigh is, as expected, now Transport Secretary.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 43000



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2024, 07:24:54 »

Mark Hopwood, MD of GWR (Great Western Railway), has posted his thoughts in public on LinkedIn, and for our Transport Scholars here on the Coffee Shop, I have shared those thoughts at http://www.passenger.chat/28886

The Transport Scholars area of the Coffee Shop is an area we can get into deep technical discussions between members without cluttering up the news feeds with stuff which many members, and guests, only want to see in management overview.    All Members are invited to join, and it's an area I'll add you to on request - a manual process, so please send me a personal message and give me a few hours, or simply "like" this post and I'll come back each evening until 13th July and add anyone who's liked this.

The Transport Scholars area is NOT accessible to guests (or search engines) - if you are on the Coffee Shop as a guest, please register  Grin - remember, it's all free and membership brings a whole host of benefits such as an ability to post, comment and send personal messages, and also provides navigation tools to help highlight (for example) posts you have not yet read.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 13003


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2024, 11:45:35 »

And Louise Haigh is, as expected, now Transport Secretary.

With Lord Hendy as the rail Minister
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10357


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2024, 12:19:23 »

And Louise Haigh is, as expected, now Transport Secretary.

With Lord Hendy as the rail Minister

Which Lord Hendy?  Peter or John?  Wink
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 13003


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2024, 12:28:44 »

Peter

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ministerial-appointments-july-2024
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 43000



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2024, 12:35:53 »


Quote
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill CBE as a Minister of State in the Department for Transport
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, TravelWatch SouthWest Board Member
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page