Bristol Resignalling - from Bristol Panel Signal Box to Thames Valley Signal Centre (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

The line speed has dropped from 25 to 10 into platforms 3-12.

Quite a drastic drop, Wizard.

May I take the opportunity to offer you a very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop! We look forward to hearing more from you, whether you stumbled across this forum by accident, or have been lurking in the shadows for years.

[TonyK]

Beds are dangerous...most people die in one.

At last - a man after my own heart! And a potential member of a new scam organisation I am starting, to help combat that most frequent killer of those who die in beds.

I give you the Society for the Prevention of Natural Causes. Send money now.

Whilst I don't usually mind the delay, if I have a good book, but I finished my book Friday morning so I chose to investigate a bit more.

I've got one if you want to borrow it. I haven't coloured all of the pictures in, because my felt-tip dried up.

The move from the UP FILTON line to Bristol Parkway P1 has not been commissioned yet.  The facing crossover and signal to allow this is at the old Filton platform site and that will be commissioned when the Filton 4 Tracking is commissioned at Christmas/New Year 2018/2019.  Well, thats what the Signalling Scheme Plan shows anyway.

Edit to Add: Same for Platform 2.

Presumably, if it were done now, it would have to be rejigged when the four-tracking is finished, and the new platform at Filton Abbey Wood opened?

[SandTEngineer]

The move from the UP FILTON line to Bristol Parkway P1 has not been commissioned yet.  The facing crossover and signal to allow this is at the old Filton platform site and that will be commissioned when the Filton 4 Tracking is commissioned at Christmas/New Year 2018/2019.  Well, thats what the Signalling Scheme Plan shows anyway.

Edit to Add: Same for Platform 2.

Presumably, if it were done now, it would have to be rejigged when the four-tracking is finished, and the new platform at Filton Abbey Wood opened?

Not totally sure but that is probably the reason FTN.

[Wizard]

It looks like a signal has been provided on the London end of Bristol Parkway platform 1. Presumably this means it will be possible to route trains from Filton/Cardiff through Platform 1 and out the other side towards London. I originally thought it would be a fixed red signal just for reversing moves back to Filton/Cardiff but it appears this isn’t the case.

[SandTEngineer]

It looks like a signal has been provided on the London end of Bristol Parkway platform 1. Presumably this means it will be possible to route trains from Filton/Cardiff through Platform 1 and out the other side towards London. I originally thought it would be a fixed red signal just for reversing moves back to Filton/Cardiff but it appears this isn’t the case.

All the lines through Bristol Parkway will become fully reversible (including the Up Passenger Loop and Down Goods Loop).  This will happen during the F4T commissioning later this year (2018).  All these lines will be accessible from the London, Filton Abbey Wood, Patchway and Avonmouth directions.

[metalrail]

Why do those terminators not use P1 - isn't that one of the things it was built for? As it is, the other users of P1 and P4 are a few "trains in excess of platform capacity", mainly XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) north-south, and P1 is unused at the relevant times. Plus that means they leave southward from a nominally south/west platform

P1 certainly came into it's own the Saturday before last due to the cabling theft between Newport & Cardiff.  There was an 800 to Cardiff stuck in P2 for ages with indefinite delays, The WSM service waiting to depart from P4, so they were running XC into P1 and my GWR N/S service to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) into P3.  Would have been a nightmare with trains stacked without it then

[IndustryInsider]

It’s quite often the case with infrastructure enhancements that you don’t necessarily notice the positive impact they are having, but you sure would if they weren’t there.

[Wizard]

It looks like a signal has been provided on the London end of Bristol Parkway platform 1. Presumably this means it will be possible to route trains from Filton/Cardiff through Platform 1 and out the other side towards London. I originally thought it would be a fixed red signal just for reversing moves back to Filton/Cardiff but it appears this isn’t the case.

All the lines through Bristol Parkway will become fully reversible (including the Up Passenger Loop and Down Goods Loop).  This will happen during the F4T commissioning later this year (2018).  All these lines will be accessible from the London, Filton Abbey Wood, Patchway and Avonmouth directions.

Thank you for the information! Of course, the Up passenger loop is already fully reversible

[SandTEngineer]

It looks like a signal has been provided on the London end of Bristol Parkway platform 1. Presumably this means it will be possible to route trains from Filton/Cardiff through Platform 1 and out the other side towards London. I originally thought it would be a fixed red signal just for reversing moves back to Filton/Cardiff but it appears this isn’t the case.

All the lines through Bristol Parkway will become fully reversible (including the Up Passenger Loop and Down Goods Loop).  This will happen during the F4T commissioning later this year (2018).  All these lines will be accessible from the London, Filton Abbey Wood, Patchway and Avonmouth directions.

Thank you for the information! Of course, the Up passenger loop is already fully reversible

There you go.  I try to explain it in simple terms for non-technical people and then somebody shoots you down because one part of it wasn't totally accurate

........only joking.....

Your'e right about the Up Passenger Loop.

[SandTEngineer]

It’s quite often the case with infrastructure enhancements that you don’t necessarily notice the positive impact they are having, but you sure would if they weren’t there.

The one thing thats always concerned me though II, is that sometimes all the 'extra' facilities are provided but then never used, even during degraded running.  The layout at Paddington is a classic example of that.  If you watch the rush hour on one of the signalling map applications, you wil see quite a few delay conflicts that could have been avoided if full use was made of the track and signalling layout.  I know that ARS^▸ (Automatic Route Setting) is to blame for a lot of that (its only as good as what the people that programme it, put into it).  But, in the olden days of signallers, decisions would have been made that mitigated such delays, as a human can be more flexible in its thought processes and can think through complex interactions and take alternative decisions, utilising the flexibility they have to its fullest extent.

Ooops, this is supposed to be the Bristol Resignalling topic.  Back off my high horse......

[Red Squirrel]

I know that ARS^▸ (Automatic Route Setting) is to blame for a lot of that (its only as good as what the people that programme it, put into it). 

That may well be true, but speaking as an IT professional I would guess that programming a computer (even if you break with tradition and do it properly, and test it, and do all those other things you're supposed to do) is one hell of a lot cheaper than installing track and signalling.

[IndustryInsider]

ARS^▸ (Automatic Route Setting) is of benefit sometimes, but equally as S&TEngineer says, it’s far from optimal especially at dealing with delays.  I suggested developing a 1-10 importance level for trains based not just on whether it’s a class 1 or class 2 train but also other factors such as that train and its crews next workings.  That sort of thing could ‘easily’ be programmed into the ARS software and might help further optimise whatever algorithms it currently uses.

[metalrail]

ARS^▸ (Automatic Route Setting) did it's usual in helping to create delays today.  Waiting for a BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains) to BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) service on platform 2 which was on time, that then got stuck behind a late running Swansea service.  Looked at the signalling screen on the platform as i'd been following the progress of both trains (i'm that sad!)  and ours ended up sat at a red signal for 5 minutes behind the Swansea train (which was further delayed in the platform) even tho the brand spanking new platform 1 was empty and had nothing scheduled for it

The Swansea service finally departed and ours came slowly trundling after 5 minutes late, and then of course we had to wait at a red signal for another 3 minutes just before FIT to wait for a CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) service to got thru FIT.  We eventually arrived 8 minutes late

All avoidable, as our train could have been diverted - on time - into the new platform 1, which would then have avoided the further delay before FIT as our service would have run at it's scheduled time, and wouldn't have then had to wait for the CDF service.  Just so annoying that the infrastructure is now in place and not used as ARS is just left to get on with it how it's programmed, actually causing delays rather than alleviating them! 

Obviously one of those pinch points will be alleviated once the new platforms 3 and 4 are in place at FIT, meaning there won't be the wait between BPW and FIT for CDF services to go thru as they'll already be on the new relief lines, rather than all southbound services having to share the current down main as they do now

[DaveHarries]

A quick heads-up. Anyone who did not see this week's edition of "Paddington 24/7" on Monday 14th may be interested to know that next week's edition - to be aired 21st May - will give time to the recent signalling and recontrol works Bristol Temple Meads which took place over Easter. Programme starts 9pm on Channel 5.

Dave

[metalrail]

Just watched it again on catch up...  really good insight into the works, especially in Bristol PSB^▸ (Power Signal Box)

Couple of things confusing me tho - don't take much! 

As I understand it the South Bristol area is staying under Bristol PSB control for now, and moving to TVSC^» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) at a later date yeah?  Which is why I understood the PSB can't be decommissioned just yet

Also, when they showed the relay room downstairs, they showed all of the old now redundant relays, but also seemed to be installing new cabling in the same relay room to link all the new switch boxes over to TVSC...  was that right or have I missed summat?

Hoping I have, as if that relay room will still house cabling for the new signalling then how can they demolish it to re-open the Midland shed for the 2 new express platforms planned for the IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s once South Bristol is transferred over?