Application to demolish building at Avonmouth station

[whole diary]

[Kempis]

I'm prompted to emerge from long-term lurkerdom on the Coffee Shop by Network Rail's application to Bristol City Council to demolish the building on the Severn Beach-bound platform of Avonmouth station.

The reference is 14/05149/N, and the application (including Network Rail's letter with photographs, which I've also attempted to attach to this post) can be accessed by entering that reference (or simply "Avonmouth station") into the search box on the Council's Planning Online website:

http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple

In my view, it would be a shame if this building is demolished, and indeed Network Rail gives no reason for its destruction other than that it does not currently have a use.

I'd hope that those who would like the building to be preserved might consider submitting an objection. Comments can be made online; the formal deadline for representations is today, Friday 14 November, but I've found it's sometimes possible to submit planning comments after the deadline.

[grahame]

I'm prompted to emerge from long-term lurkerdom on the Coffee Shop by Network Rail's application to Bristol City Council to demolish the building on the Severn Beach-bound platform of Avonmouth station.

Welcome to the forum in a full, posting manner, Kempis

The reference is 14/05149/N, and the application (including Network Rail's letter with photographs, which I've also attempted to attach to this post) can be accessed by entering that reference (or simply "Avonmouth station") into the search box on the Council's Planning Online website:

http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple

I went there to take a look, but get

Please check the search criteria:
Unable to run your search at this time.

Do I need a log in ... or is this site open for searches only during certain hours?

In my view, it would be a shame if this building is demolished, and indeed Network Rail gives no reason for its destruction other than that it does not currently have a use.

I'd hope that those who would like the building to be preserved might consider submitting an objection. Comments can be made online; the formal deadline for representations is today, Friday 14 November, but I've found it's sometimes possible to submit planning comments after the deadline.

Pending a look after 9 a.m.(?) ... is there further data / comment to hand anywhere?

[grahame]

This is the buiding:



Picture reproduced here under creative commons license http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3299853 - thanks to "Jaggery" for its submission and the right to use.

Here is how it appears on he documents, now open for access as it's wakey time!



Network Rail say

I write to notify the Bristol City Council of Network Rails intension to demolish the existing
Ex Station Building located on operational railway land at Avonmouth Station. For your
reference please see below for a photo of the site in question. I also enclose a Site Location
Plan, which identifies the location of the building in red.
The structure has no future operational or commercial use, is not listed and does not fall
within a conservation area. The building holds some architectural merit but its removal
would not detract from the aesthetic quality and appearance of the area. As such, the
proposed demolition works benefit from deemed planning consent, not requiring any form of
consent from the Local Planning Authority. However, under Part 31 of the GPDO we are
required to submit an application for prior notification for the proposed demolition to
establish if prior approval is required for the method of demolition and the proposed
restoration of the site post demolition.
Notwithstanding the above, Network Rail believe that the proposed demolition works would
not require such prior approval and hope that Bristol City Council agree with this opinion.
Accordingly, we look forward to receiving formal correspondence within 28 days of receipt
of this application that prior approval is not required and that the demolition works can
proceed as planned.

and include the following pictures:





There are around half a dozen comments on the application at the momemt, all objections. They comment that this is an increasingly rare buiding with a great history and that other historic buildings in Avonmouth are likely to be lost in the future, bearing in mind the nature of the othe buildings being within operations dock areas that will stand in the way of redeveopment, which this station building does not.   Several of the objections are from local elected representatives.  Other (nonrail) use such as cafe / museum has been suggested but nothing very specific as far as I could see.   According to forms submitted, demonlition would be started on 12th January 2015 and completed by 2nd November 2014.

Personal comments

1. We would "give our eye teeth" for a building such as this at Melksham Station which is similarly set in a semi-industrial setting in the back of the town.  As a CRP^▸ (Community Rail Partnership) office, station snack bar, museum, office, community and secuiry point, heritage interest to attract people to come, and that's just a start ...

2. How widely have other options been explored?   Have folks like the Severnside Partnership and FOSBR^▸ (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways) been notified / involved / taken a look at what could be done with the building?   Have Network Rail had a thorough and substantive look around for other uses?

3. I do not know the case personally and have only seen the building in passing.  IF all avenues have been explored and serious money would be required out of funds that would otherwise allow another project of real benefit to paseegers to go ahead, and IF there is no propect of anything but it being an unloved shell, there may be a regrettable case for its departure ... however as yes (in a very quick look) I have seen little evidence of attempts to find such an alternative.

[Lee]

As you can see from the photos, the building was a gents hairdressers for a number of years. However, one of the consequences of this was that the question of its future use wasn't really considered in the 2007 Severn Beach Line Development Plan, because at the time it already had a use.

However, the barber has now been retired for some time, and the building has now been empty for a lengthy period, whilst also not benefiting like other stations on the route have from implementation of the Line Development Plan.

On the question of Severnside CRP^▸ (Community Rail Partnership) intervention - The trouble is, I had a similar conversation with Keith Walton a few years back (in a far better financial climate) when the Sea Mills station building became available, and they simply didn't have the funds for a project of that size even then.

To be perfectly frank, the best hope here is if some of these elected officials get together with the local community, using their collective strengths and influence to come up with both a plan for the building and some funding to make it a reality - After all, the key reason cited by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) for going down this route is because they don't believe the building has a future, and it's up to everyone who cares about it to show the opposite to be the case.

And if NR's track record elsewhere in these "short notice" circumstances is anything to go by, to do so rather quickly...

[grahame]

To be perfectly frank, the best hope here is if some of these elected officials get together with the local community, using their collective strengths and influence to come up with both a plan for the building and some funding to make it a reality - After all, the key reason cited by NR^» (Network Rail - home page) for going down this route is because they don't believe the building has a future, and it's up to everyone who cares about it to show the opposite to be the case.

And if NR's track record elsewhere in these "short notice" circumstances is anything to go by, to do so rather quickly...

Thanks, Lee ... for our Bristol members, if interested, to chase up quickly - reply to the planning application and copy their appropriate officials.

[Red Squirrel]

I've registered my objection...

I note that the reason for raising the 'prior notice' is technically just to give the local authority an opportunity to object to the method of demolition or subsequent site restoration. However one might be forgiven for hoping that if enough people shout at them, NR^» (Network Rail - home page) could find it in themselves to consider the possibility that they might be doing the wrong thing.

[grahame]

I'm noting a decision (geeze - that was quick!) which is a refusal.  It's based on Network Rail supplying insufficient information, and not on the objections which are (as I read it) not reasons for refusal, bearing in mind that all Network Rail were asking for was for the go-ahead for stuff they feel they're able to do without permission.   I'm probably paraphrasing badly here!

To conclude, prior approval cannot be given as insufficient information has been provided regarding the method of demolition, site safety and restoration. Prior approval is refused. A revised application must be submitted to resolve these issues.

Thoughts, anyone?

[stuving]

Demolition does not usually need planning approval, but does need a permit and this looks like the first step in that process - asking whether you need to ask! See http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/demolition/

Demolition

Planning Permission

In most cases you will not need to apply for planning permission to knock down a building, unless the council has made an article 4 direction restricting the permitted development rights that apply to demolition.

If you decide to demolish a building, even one which has suffered fire or storm damage, it does not automatically follow that you will get planning permission to build any replacement structure or to change the use of the site.

Where demolition of any kind of building is proposed, the council may wish to agree the details of how you intend to carry out the demolition and how you propose to restore the site afterwards.

You will need to apply for a formal decision on whether the council wishes to approve these details before you start demolition. This is what is called a "prior approval application" and your council will be able to explain what it involves.

As a railway they may be in effect pre-approved in some respects - to be sorted out with the council no doubt.

[Western Pathfinder]

I have just come back from having a look a this site it would seem that what is left of the former parcels building at avonmouth is quite solid with a decent roof and chimneys  and some work has been done to the pointing and lead work on them in the last few years so all in all it does not look like its in danger of falling over the site has good access to both the platform on the side and the road and footpath on the end near to the level crossing  one thing that does not show up in the pictures is the recent addition of a secure cage for the storage of cycles and at the time of my visit this was open but was not being used the building is in keeping with the style of the area and to be fair is the only real part of any railway structure that remains on the site the platform on the other side not being anything to speak of
       WP.

[Chris from Nailsea]

I'm prompted to emerge from long-term lurkerdom on the Coffee Shop by Network Rail's application to Bristol City Council to demolish the building on the Severn Beach-bound platform of Avonmouth station.

Welcome to the forum in a full, posting manner, Kempis

Indeed - and may I offer you my own very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, Kempis. 

I shall post further on this topic this evening, when I've caught up with the subsequent discussion. 

[Kempis]

Welcome to the forum in a full, posting manner, Kempis

Indeed - and may I offer you my own very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, Kempis.

Thank you both for your welcome. And -- I should have said in my first post -- greetings to all. I've enjoyed reading the Coffee Shop for quite a while.

Do I need a log in ... or is this site open for searches only during certain hours?

No login needed -- but I think the site may go offline in the small hours. Indeed, I'm not sure whether my own comment posted successfully, since all comments made have now disappeared.

I'm noting a decision (geeze - that was quick!) which is a refusal.  It's based on Network Rail supplying insufficient information, and not on the objections which are (as I read it) not reasons for refusal, bearing in mind that all Network Rail were asking for was for the go-ahead for stuff they feel they're able to do without permission.

Yes -- that was quick, and a relief -- but it's evidently no more than the first stage, since Network Rail may come back with answers to the points raised by the Council.

I note that the reason for raising the 'prior notice' is technically just to give the local authority an opportunity to object to the method of demolition or subsequent site restoration. However one might be forgiven for hoping that if enough people shout at them, NR^» (Network Rail - home page) could find it in themselves to consider the possibility that they might be doing the wrong thing.

That's very much my thought too.

I have just come back from having a look a this site it would seem that what is left of the former parcels building at avonmouth is quite solid with a decent roof and chimneys  and some work has been done to the pointing and lead work on them in the last few years so all in all it does not look like its in danger of falling over

That's good to know. If the building is in reasonable condition, there is (in my view) no need to destroy it, even if a use cannot be found in the immediate future. Even in its current state, the building contributes to the visual amenity of the station.

Thanks to all who have objected. I'll try and find out if there's a way in which we can be notified if Network Rail applies to the Council again to take it further.

[eightf48544]

Looks like it could make an ideal Model Railway club or Scout Hut etc.

[Kempis]

The Council's decision on Network Rail's application was covered in today's Bristol Post:

THE Victorian railway station building at Avonmouth ^ which was facing demolition ^ has been given a temporary reprieve after campaigners lobbied the city council.

Network Rail wants to demolish the building but the campaigners, including Bristol North West MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Charlotte Leslie, say the building could be used commercially or even re-introduced as a railway facility in the future.

They say the future expansion of Bristol's rail network make any decision to knock it down nonsensical. They also say that its historic role could also mean it would be appropriate to confer a conservation order or listed status on the building.

Network Rail applied to have the building demolished and since it is not currently protected or has conservation area status, a full planning application would normally not be needed. But after pressure from Conservative MP Ms Leslie, along with local Tory councillors Wayne Harvey and Matt Melias, council officers say Network rail have failed to give enough detail about their plans and have refused the demolition application, giving the campaigners time to negotiate an alternative solution with Network Rail.

Full story here:

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Temporary-reprieve-Victorian-railway-station/story-24566983-detail/story.html

There's also a petition -- Don't Demolish Avonmouth Station! -- started by Charlotte Leslie MP and local councillors Matt Melias and Wayne Harvey:

Avonmouth railway station is an irreplaceable part of our heritage and Planning Officers have a duty to ensure that our future generations benefit from its preservation. Indeed, it is our belief that the building should be subject to a Conservation Order or Listed status ^ owing to its local historical importance and obvious aesthetic qualities.

Details here:

http://avonmouthstation.bristolpetitions.com/

[JayMac]

Hang on a mo.

Haven't Bristol City Council merely objected to the method of demolition, rather than objected to Network Rail demolishing a building on their land?

I'm all for a stay of execution to see if a use can be found for the building, but I also fully understand Network Rail not wishing to spend money maintaining a building that is no longer of any use. Ambivalent best describes how I feel about the building's future. Should Network Rail be spending money on it for a potential 'jam tomorrow' project that has neither funding or a coherent plan?

It might be used for this, it could be used for that... Only now are such ideas being posited. Where were those ideas when the building wasn't under threat of demolition?

[RichardB]

I discussed this today with someone who is big in preserving and improving railway property.

He said that this building is in very poor condition indeed (you can get a hand between brickwork and window frames in some parts, evidently.) He thought the whole building was beyond saving, but that some features could be saved and work.