New timetable - reading to london

[whole diary]

[fmf]

Is anyone else horrified? I'd always optimistically hoped to catch the 7.46 but could rarely get on, so I wouldn't even bother with the 7.52 and jump straight onto the 7.55.

Now there's nothing between 7.46 and 8.00!!! How on earth is that going to work?

Is there anything we can do? I'm new to this and usually been quite passive about my rail commuting problems but this is going to make my mornings so much worse than the usual misery.

[devon_metro]

Not sure where you are commuting from but from Reading there are high speed trains to London every 3 or 4 minutes.

[gaf71]

Is anyone else horrified? I'd always optimistically hoped to catch the 7.46 but could rarely get on, so I wouldn't even bother with the 7.52 and jump straight onto the 7.55.

Now there's nothing between 7.46 and 8.00!!! How on earth is that going to work?

Is there anything we can do? I'm new to this and usually been quite passive about my rail commuting problems but this is going to make my mornings so much worse than the usual misery.

I don't mean this in a detrimental way to you fmf, but you are talking about a 14 min wait. When you consider the problems encountered by other posters on this site, it made me chuckle!

[grahame]

Yes, please do tell us your journey, fmf, otherwise it's hard to make realistic / constructive comments and thoughts.  There can be "mittigating circumstances" at times - where a pattern is changed such that very frequent longer distance trains that are already overcrowded are "expressed" through some places, leaving a less frequent but much more comfortable new local service.  I don't know of this happening at the current timetable change, mind you.

I have, as an aside, to agree with gaf71 - I have one train for a Melksham to Swindon journey  I often make - it runs at 07:17 and has a cencellation rate of somewhat in excess of 5%.   It's really rather earlier than I would like; a train at 08:00 would be ideal, but actually the next service doesn't run until 19:50.  They've shortened the gap in the new timetable - the next service is now 19:47!   Return from Swindon?   06:19 or 18:42 at present ... and that's the complete service on a 25 minute journey from a very large connurbation to a town of some 24000. The service under the previous franchise was somewhat better, and showing excellent annual growth - well in excess of 10% compound. This growth has been dramatically reversed by the new timetable that First introduced

[devon_metro]

Had a feeling we would get a Melksham rant 

[John R]

Hmm, I'm not surprised we haven't heard again from fmf. Maybe we should be a bit more encouraging to new posters. I suspect from the description of the current situation that his/her concern was that when the 0800 comes in there won't be a remote chance of actually getting on board.

[Mookiemoo]

Hmm, I'm not surprised we haven't heard again from fmf. Maybe we should be a bit more encouraging to new posters. I suspect from the description of the current situation that his/her concern was that when the 0800 comes in there won't be a remote chance of actually getting on board.

Probably because some of us who are recent newbies would love the train service you get from reading

2.5 hours on a 165?

Train that is on time if it is +/- 20 minutes?

The first on the long distance lines to sacrifice its units for other lines?

[grahame]

Picking up on John R's comment .... "Not surprised we haven't heard back from fmf".

John - I agree that we may have put "fmf" off rather.  We all come from different perspectives, and we should certainly respect those far more with newcomers (for whom just a single slighly critical word could be offputting) than once we know us and we know people.

Indeed - once I had offered some possible insites and explanations I compared the service that fmf got to the service at my local station which one of our other members described as a "rant". Hmm -  *I* didn't think that it was (and I looked up "rant" in a disctionary as I was hurt by the suggestion) but I will unreservedly apologise if I have put anyone off by ranting.

A full post - which I urge everyone to look at - on "members new and old" is now up at:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1067.0

As the Adminiostrator here, I'm less checked than most .... so I mhave given my fellow moderators a chance to tell me what they think of this seiers of posts, and the "old and new" topic is posted with their agreement

[BandHcommuter]

John - I agree that we may have put "fmf" off rather.  We all come from different perspectives, and we should certainly respect those far more with newcomers (for whom just a single slighly critical word could be offputting) than once we know us and we know people.

I think that in some threads we risk falling into the "my service/train/journey is worse than yours" trap, rather than discussing the point made at the outset and its consequences. So here are my thoughts!

As commuters, we develop our own routines around a particular train service pattern, and a timetable change (which in some cases is beneficial on a wider basis) disrupts those routines. Reading commuters face different challenges from some of the rest of us. Each day I am sat on the (full) train as it pulls into Reading at 0750 on the way to London. There are 200+ people waiting on platform 5, anxiously looking through the windows to see if there is a seat, or even room to stand. They cram in, find a space to perch, and if lucky only have to put up with it for half an hour. A miserable start to the day. I understand that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are providing more seating capacity between Reading and Paddington in the peaks by replacing 180s with HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train). Even so, with a 14 minute gap, there is going to be a very big crowd on the platform waiting for the 0800 train, and a very large number of passengers will be altering their daily routine earlier (or later) to avoid this.

[gaf71]

Hmm, I'm not surprised we haven't heard again from fmf. Maybe we should be a bit more encouraging to new posters. I suspect from the description of the current situation that his/her concern was that when the 0800 comes in there won't be a remote chance of actually getting on board.

Sorry! Didn't mean to scare fmf away. Hope he/she returns soon. Was just commenting that a lot of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) customers would love a 14 min wait.

[johoare]

I agree that fmf appears scared off (and with good reason).. Whilst I agree that what FGW^▸ (First Great Western) has done to Melksham passengers is an outrage, travelling into London on the train is more of a necessity, as driving into London and parking there isn't usually feasible whereas it may be more feasible to drive into Swindon for example..(obviously assuming you have a car before someone picks me up on that point!!)..  And I guess many many many more people commute into London than Swindon each day.. Hence the 14 minute gap between trains being a big problem when the trains are already too overcrowded..  Unfortunately us London commuters are left with little choice other than to join these cattletrucks, although I'm sure the Melksham (and other people in the same boat) passengers would prefer a cattle truck to no train at all... Thank you FGW!

[grahame]

I think the term that we're all looking for an apppropriate service covers it all. But "appropriate" differs for different journeys. 

[BandHcommuter]

I think the term that we're all looking for an apppropriate service covers it all. But "appropriate" differs for different journeys. 

I have some difficulty with the term "appropriate" in this context (the dictionary doesn't help), because it not only differs for different journeys, but also for different stakeholder perspectives. For example: users, potential users, non-users, subsidising authorities, service operators, infrastructure owners, businesses, local residents, environmental campaigners, enthusiasts, the pro-car lobby, taxpayers and many more will generally will all have their own idea of what is appropriate for a particular route, and a good smattering of prejudice will come in to the mix. Does appropriate mean:

Lowest net burden on the taxpayer (most affordable)?
Highest economic benefit per pound of subsidy (best value for money in treasury terms)?
Most cars off the road per pound of subsidy?
The same service level as on routes of similar characteristic elsewhere?
A service that makes a profit?
Consistency with local planning and spatial strategies?
The service that fits best into the timetable within finite resources?
Some, all or none of these - and then what if they conflict?

And then there are trade offs, potential competition for resources, and political intervention.

Discuss!

[devon_metro]

I agree that fmf appears scared off (and with good reason).. Whilst I agree that what FGW^▸ (First Great Western) has done to Melksham passengers is an outrage, travelling into London on the train is more of a necessity, as driving into London and parking there isn't usually feasible whereas it may be more feasible to drive into Swindon for example..(obviously assuming you have a car before someone picks me up on that point!!)..  And I guess many many many more people commute into London than Swindon each day.. Hence the 14 minute gap between trains being a big problem when the trains are already too overcrowded..  Unfortunately us London commuters are left with little choice other than to join these cattletrucks, although I'm sure the Melksham (and other people in the same boat) passengers would prefer a cattle truck to no train at all... Thank you FGW!

I will put my bit on in here, as bad as it is that Melksham gets such a bad service, why virtually every thread should get the same dribble about fastest growing town blah blah

Melksham isn't on the mainline
FGW has limited stock
FGW doesn't have money to waste on a line that doesn't pull many passengers in in comparison to most of the FGW area

No doubt I will get shot down, but I am sick and tired of seeing the same stuff about Melksham across the forum. Even if the forum does belong to a resident seeing something about Melksham in the Devon thread is simply clutter IMO^▸ (in my opinion).

If I had my way Melksham would stay in the Transwilt section.

[grahame]

No doubt I will get shot down, but I am sick and tired of seeing the same stuff about Melksham across the forum.

[snip]

If I had my way Melksham would stay in the Transwilt section.

I'm not going to shoot you down, Liam.  Quite the reverse.  I'm going to invite you and others to talk, and talk more about other topics; there are indeed many other issues.   But of course you will naturally find that the malcontents - those who have a service which is below appropriate or is unfit for purpose in some way - will be much more vocal than travellers from (examples) Chippenham to London or Paignton to Newton Abbott who have a far more frequent service already.

I'm also going to ask you to re-state / re-quote in the TransWilts section the suggestions you're making about the economic case, etc, and let me know the evidence you're using to back up your suggestions. There's plenty published these days, but more and more it's the older (2002) data and Jacobs (0.8% growth form there) evidence that points to an appropriate service being a single peak hour run, and the 2004 / 5 / 6 data, actually achieved growth rates of over 10%, RSS^▸ (Regional Spatial Strategy) plans for 50% more housing, etc that show a service at a higher level would fill quickly and give us overcrowing problems too in a few years.  You appear (to me) to be quoting just headlines that are somewhat contrary to the data and passenger needs and I would love to understand your case / logic.

And I agree - let's keep that detail out of "London / Reading".