Great Western Coffee Shop

WTF is going on?

Are the management not keeping their staff happy? Happy staff will almost always help between them to cover shifts but when morale is low the answer is normally "no".

Having done a bit of digging, I think those cancellations (and probably a large slice of other cancellations due to crew shortages across the network) are being caused by the company removing the incentive to do overtime or break Union rules by coming off their shift to cover another.  This is as a result of pressure from the Union following widespread breaking of those union rules.

As an example, previously a driver might be asked to do an hours overtime on a 10 hour shift, but they would get another extra hour of pay as an extra incentive, no rules broken doing that but they are now only getting the hours extra they work and no extra incentive.  Or a driver would be asked to come in to cover a different shift (which does break the 'rules') and again there would be an incentive for them to do that. 

Those incentives are now not being offered, so many drivers are no longer interested in helping out.

At least Ryanair can admit its bad management though.

I assume that GWR are recruiting to sort this mess out?

I agree.  Why not email him personally with that very suggestion?

Responses from Mark H personally come back quite smartish in my experience - he may of course, pass your query to customer services.

I agree.  Why not email him personally with that very suggestion?

Though it seems as though Mr O'Leary is at increasing war with his pilots over the issue, so maybe that aspect of his tactics should be avoided.

Nevertheless M.O'L has been big enough to stand up in front of the media and his company's AGM and tell them he's made a huge cock up, mostly taking personal responsibility for that problem.

As has been noted elsewhere on the forum, Mr Hopwood seems to have become the invisible man of late, now that things aren't going quite so well to plan.

I am disappointed as well that Mark Hopwood has not made a public apology - even if it was a letter on the seats of trains as had been the case before.  Though had GWR been on the front cover of national newspapers and a lead article on national TV news programmes, like Ryanair have been, I am sure Mark Hopwood would have been forced into doing something.  Had Ryanair been subjected to the fairly low press coverage, mostly small articles in local newspapers, like GWR have been, then I expect Michael O'Leary would have taken a much lower profiled approach.  He's clearly a worried man!

......as my dear old Grandad used to say, anyone can run, hide, make excuses or blame others, but it takes a man to stand up & say sorry.

Or the alternative version of "anyone can run, hide, make excuses or blame others, but it takes a desperate man to stand up & say sorry."

Bith the last two Oxford/Banbury shuttles this evening have been cancelled! That's 25% of services today.
Oh, we list the first one today to a failed train too.
So that's actually 37.5% gone today

Bith the last two Oxford/Banbury shuttles this evening have been cancelled! That's 25% of services today.
Oh, we list the first one today to a failed train too.
So that's actually 37.5% gone today

I'll happily help you draft a letter to Mr Hopwood.  :P

This service was cancelled between Hereford and Worcester Shrub Hill due to an issue with the train crew (TG).

This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.

On Thursday evening of last week I was up in London for a show. The most convenient train for me back to Twyford would have been the 2318 PAD-OXF semi-fast but I checked RTT and discovered it was being regularly cancelled "due to an issue with the train crew". Instead I drove and parked in Westfield and used the Tube from there. I've just taken a look at RTT and so far that train's been cancelled every night this week.

No, the 17:36 is diagrammed as a turbo (and has been since 4th September) therefore I'm assuming 5 car as NickB said

The 17.36 certianly used to be an 8 car HST and needed to be as such. It toyed with being an adelante when an HST was removed for a few weeeks last summer. The 5 car turbo is poor and the 2 car is criminal.

This simply shifts more passengers for maidenhead to the next direct service which is the  perennially overcrowded 18.18 which is a turbo itself and is the worst train of the schedule.

Yes, the 23:18 is often sacrificed as the driver and train work empty from Oxford at around 9pm.

GWR seem to be gradually removing the HSTs from the Maidenhead timetable.. So having given us extra capacity with the EMUs they are then taking it away again.. Added to that the lack of drivers and therefore train cancellations it feels like one step forward and two steps back currently.. That will teach me to be so optimistic!  ::) :P

48 cancellations already today, all due to shortage of train crew. Still not a whisper from Hopwood.

I think it's time for fewer "keynote" speeches from him, and more attention to the day to day operation of his business.

Without being able to look back, this looks to be one of the worst Sundays for cancelled/affected services down to train crew. Is this 'unofficial' action (which they are entitled to do) by train crew escalating?

Yep - the 7.59am HST (8 coaches) and the 8.02am from Henley (5 coaches) which ran non stop from Maidenhead to Paddington have been replaced by one 8 carriage electric train. The 7.59am was probably the busiest HST other than the 7.08am.. I've not tried the 8.02am electric train but I'm pretty sure you won't be guaranteed a seat on it seeing the amount of people who used to use the 7.59am...

I am looking forward to a week of cancellations again since the Electric train drivers have been working this weekend...

As I said - one step forward and two massive ones back. Thanks GWR  - I expect you'll still be happy to take my money when I go to get my new monthly ticket later

This is due to a shortage of train crew.

This service was cancelled throughout due to a planning error (TA).

Without wanting to go too far off topic, how does GWR get away with slashing services like this?  Who holds them to account and challenges the decision making process? They just seem to come up with an idea and run with it without any thought or consideration, and once it's done it's harder to undo.

A round trip from Paddington to Hereford cancelled today - 12:42 from Paddington, and 16:34 back from Hereford.

According to JourneyCheck,

According to realtimetrains,

Yep - the 7.59am HST (8 coaches) and the 8.02am from Henley (5 coaches) which ran non stop from Maidenhead to Paddington have been replaced by one 8 carriage electric train. The 7.59am was probably the busiest HST other than the 7.08am.. I've not tried the 8.02am electric train but I'm pretty sure you won't be guaranteed a seat on it seeing the amount of people who used to use the 7.59am...

I am looking forward to a week of cancellations again since the Electric train drivers have been working this weekend...

As I said - one step forward and two massive ones back. Thanks GWR  - I expect you'll still be happy to take my money when I go to get my new monthly ticket later

Not too many alternative options for shift workers with these two cancelled.......a long, long wait for some.

28/09/17 02:24 Reading to London Paddington due 03:18 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

28/09/17 03:34 London Paddington to Reading due 04:30 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

Crew shortages. What did they expect to happen?  TfL are recruiting all new drivers rather than take them from GWR.
Once CrossRail starts and takes over services from GWR there is a good chance that the current GWR will close. As a result drivers are leaving and who can blame them. They aren’t going to sit and wait to be made redundant.
The whole situation has been handled very poorly considering not that many years ago GWR heavily recruited drivers in the area with the expectation of them being transferred over to CrossRail

I notice London - Worcester/Hereford services aren't stopping at Foregate St to due a shortage of station staff. Is this because of a requirement for HSTs to be dispatched by someone on the platform owing to the curve?

Are any forum members close enough to gwr to understand if they recognise this as a problem??   Obviously there is no use asking customer services about this as I won't get a reply until crossrail goes live, but it would be reassuring to know that this at least registers as a problem and someone is working on it...

The operational team that's trying to schedule the rotas is only too aware there's a problem.   It's recognised as a problem as you get further from the operation team, but the problem becomes muted as you move steps away from the actual team trying to squeeze five cups of tea out of 4 teabags.    Because crew training is a convenient reason (and probably with much more than a grain of truth in it) and next year's training program is 33% down on this year's, the strategists away from the front line may be tempted to see it as a temporary problem, especially when they look at new crew being trained to add to the rotas next year.

Why would the "present GWR close" ? Surely GWR will still be running all the non  Crossrail routes and will still need large numbers of drivers to so do.
First group might lose the franchise of course, but that is a separate issue, and the new operator would have to take on the drivers.

Taking them from GWR would presumably mean TUPEing them on existing T&Cs?

Going out & recruiting them directly means they can be offered the contract TfL/Crossrail want them to have. Who can blame TfL?

I've just been looking at RTT for overnight last night, Down stoppers from PAD at 22:57, 23:49, 01:34, then 05:17 & 06:12 were all cancelled due to "an issue with the train crew". After the 01:34 there's nothing for another 2 hours so presumably taxis were provided?

The 0134 was replaced by buses. I took the following screenshot that evening:

Indeed one swallow doesn't make a summer, or should it - now we are in October - be one avocet doesn't make an autumn, but only two cancellations so far (1 HSS from Bristol to London and 1 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth) but also no over-running engineering work and no reported short formed workings.
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so far!  ;)

Thank you for your first post, and that screenshot, hassaanhc - and may I offer you a very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum.  :)

Welcome indeed to the forum.

It's ironic that a shortage of one train driver that night lead to a requirement for at least two bus drivers, and perhaps one more than that if the incoming service was also replaced by a bus that would still be some way off Paddington when the return service left.

Amazing the effect a "one off payment" can have on the prioritisation of work/life balance!!!  :D

Lots of cancellations/alterations again today due to crew shortages causing severe overcrowding on longer distance routes.

Just a typical Sunday travelling with GWR sadly. So much so that no one's bothered to say anything about it anymore.

Looking at the list it's the usual suspects that appear with the Portsmouths, the Cheltenham's and Bristol to London copping it again.

Still, at least you could say even with the cancelled services, it's better than the fair being offered to and from London last weekend. I know that's not saying much.

Five arrive at the station to find their train cancelled due to shortage of train crew.

In view of these apparently ongoing problems, I have now expanded the heading of this topic.  :o ::)

Weymouth services significantly affected today, not helped by the 0533 failing before it left.

20:49 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth due 23:13 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Bristol Temple Meads, Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bath Spa, Freshford, Avoncliff, Bradford-On-Avon and Trowbridge.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Further Information
Passengers are requested to utilise the next available service.

The last train of the day back to Weymouth is also affected:

This had become a frequent occurrence at weekends, and is now encroaching onto weekdays. Maybe there is a half-term annual leave effect on driver availability? I am reminded of an occasion when the last train to Weymouth was cancelled on a Saturday back in July. I had turned up to catch it from Oldfield Park station, where someone on the help point told me to get a local bus from the Lower Bristol Road to Bath Station, where a taxi would be provided. Trouble is, Bath Station couldn't rustle up enough taxis. A solution on this occasion would be either to delay the preceding Portsmouth train into the times of the Weymouth as far as Westbury (calling additionally at places like Oldfield Park, Freshford etc.), or hold the Weymouth train at Westbury until the following Portsmouth train arrives. It will be interesting to see how GWR choose to mitigate the impact on passengers.

15:08 Weymouth to Gloucester due 18:33
15:08 Weymouth to Gloucester due 18:33 will be started from Bristol Temple Meads.
It will no longer call at Weymouth, Upwey, Dorchester West, Maiden Newton, Chetnole, Yetminster, Thornford, Yeovil Pen Mill, Castle Cary, Bruton, Frome, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford-On-Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Bath Spa, Oldfield Park and Keynsham.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Further Information
Customers for Westbury and stations to Cardiff Central are requested to travel to Southampton Central on South West Trains services for next available GWR connections to Cardiff Central, Bristol Temple Meads or Great. Malvern.
Customers for intermediate stations will be requested to utilise replacement road transport.
Customers are requested to wait for road transport in the designated road replacement areas. Customers are advised that buses will run later that than the advertised train times due to line of route and additional time required for loading and unloading.

17:02 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:28
17:02 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:28 will call additionally at Avoncliff and Freshford.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

17:30 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:09
17:30 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:09 will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Trowbridge, Bradford-On-Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Bath Spa, Oldfield Park, Keynsham and Bristol Temple Meads.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

17:44 Bristol Parkway to Westbury due 18:54
17:44 Bristol Parkway to Westbury due 18:54 will be terminated at Bristol Temple Meads.
It will no longer call at Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bath Spa, Freshford, Avoncliff, Bradford-On-Avon, Trowbridge and Westbury.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

17:57 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:43
17:57 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:43 will be starting late from London Paddington.
This is due to train crew being delayed.

18:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:39
18:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:39 will call additionally at Keynsham.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

18:10 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:48
18:10 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:48 will be starting late from London Paddington.
This is due to train crew being delayed

20:21 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:45
20:21 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:45 will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Trowbridge, Bradford-On-Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Bath Spa, Oldfield Park, Keynsham and Bristol Temple Meads.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

20:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 23:54
20:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 23:54 will call additionally at Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Freshford and Avoncliff.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

20:49 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth due 23:13
20:49 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth due 23:13 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Bristol Temple Meads, Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bath Spa, Freshford, Avoncliff, Bradford-On-Avon and Trowbridge.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

It does seem to be an absence of adaptability, we have had the best part of a year of short formed and cancelled trains in the Bristol area, it is absolutely ridiculous that the commuter trains in the evening from Bristol Temple Meads have often been cut from 4 or 5 coaches to 2, it is high time that trains should not be cancelled when the next one on the route is more than, say 30 minutes later, and unless that following train has sufficient capacity, this has certainly been a very poor year for 'customers' in the Bristol, Yate, Frome areas, let alone Melksham. Most years in the summer the trains to Weymouth have been 5 coaches, this year they actually ran one that was 1 coach and had to leave loads of people behind at Trowbridge. I'd like to sign this as "Not Impressed"

Indeed it was a driver of a train in the area.  He could hear a man calling for help, has now located him and waited for a medical team to arrive and treat him.

No GWR services to/from Brighton today due to train crew issues. At least there are plenty of alternative services available for anyone making long distance journeys because it's Saturday and not Sunday.

Re Brighton services - 1046 ex-GMV arriving 1615 reinstated, according to journeycheck

But the last two services to/from Melksham gave gone again owing to staff shortages

See Attachment ...

With fleet reliability, I don't doubt the maintenance staff do the best they can with what they have. I don't think anyone goes to work to deliberately do a bad job.

Despite this, it is an inescapable fact that fleet reliability is sub-par, and has been for years. Next month is the Modern Railway Golden Spanner Awards. Will we see yet another year where GWR is the bottom of the pile for unit and HST reliability? If this summer is anything to go by, probably. I remember on one day in the Summer, we had half the 158 fleet grounded.

This is not a personal attack on the staff. It's a harsh reality check about how GWR seems to do things. The company knew years ago that we'd lose maintenance staff to Hitachi. What did they do to mitigate the shortage of staff? Not a lot. It's also worth noting that in the past we used to have fitters visit some of our outstations overnight to do minor work. Doesn't happen any more unless there is a major issue. I reckon that it is cheaper to cancel trains than spending the money to keep them up together.

It is true that GWR has a knackered and stretched fleet, but the same is also true at TOCs such as Northern and EMT, and they do better than us somehow.

It's not just the fleet side either, on the train crew side things are a mess. We have over established depots that have had work taken away from them, while depots that are notoriously short of train crew such as Bristol have had an increase of work. We have diagrams produced in cookoo land, and then the company scratches its head when a train is cancelled due to a lack of crew, while another depot has drivers sat around spare that don't sign the route/traction. Modern day railway.

An interesting and telling comment on the WNXX Forum from somebody on the inside:

Re Brighton services - 1046 ex-GMV arriving 1615 reinstated, according to journeycheck

But the last two services to/from Melksham gave gone again owing to staff shortages

Fortunately the cancelled Melksham services have all been reinstated, although not of use if you have already made alternative plans assuming that the trains were not running.

Quite a few of these this morning - Christmas hols starting?


07:32 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 08:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

Oh dear, another subject line needs updating!

In the morning the 2S10 0745 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington and return 2S11 0818 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington (0821 at Southall) were originally shown as cancelled due to a lack of traincrew, but were suddenly reinstated and appear to have run virtually to time. Losing that as well as the 0806 Heathrow Connect (due to a unit failure, not traincrew issues!) had me worried about being able to board my preferred service* (0831 non-stop to Paddington) but in the end there was no issue, and it was actually on time! ;D

I would anticipate problems with crew shortages until the new year on all days of the week now, as large numbers of crew, quite often the maximum allowed at a given depot, will be taking leave each day.

I would anticipate problems with crew shortages until the new year on all days of the week now, as large numbers of crew, quite often the maximum allowed at a given depot, will be taking leave each day.

I'm not surprised, given the inability of GWR to manage & maintain their workforce efficiently.  In the real World, the needs of the business & it's customers are the first consideration when approving Annual leave.

I'm not surprised, given the inability of GWR to manage & maintain their workforce efficiently.  In the real World, the needs of the business & it's customers are the first consideration when approving Annual leave.

Whilst I appreciate that recruiting and training drivers takes time, how long should GWR be given to address this issue ?

The need to train staff on new rolling stock should have been foreseen, surely, and not come as a surprise.

I would have more sympathy with GWR if some exceptional event had left them short of staff, but I can not accept that weekends, weekdays, December, the long planned arrival of new trains, and the like are exceptional.

And as for "not wanting to train staff for a potential new TOC" Well I am afraid that this of one of the entirely foreseeable hazards of running a business on a fixed term franchise basis, that MIGHT or might not be extended.

The ROUTINE failure to recruit and retain enough drivers and other front line staff to reliably operate the advertised services is in my view a lack of basic competence.

Whilst I appreciate that recruiting and training drivers takes time, how long should GWR be given to address this issue ?

The need to train staff on new rolling stock should have been foreseen, surely, and not come as a surprise.

Here is the current list of GWR vacancies from the First Group website...........I see none for drivers, train crew, ticket office staff etc despite constant cancellations due to traincrew shortages and many LTV ticket offices now being virtually permanently closed.......due to "staff shortage" according to GWR.

You will also note the absence of Customer service staff to deal with correspondence/complaints, despite the months long delay in getting responses which has now been going on for over a year - some of this may have been outsourced

Bears out what I said in my previous post - that the shortages are down to training, and once complete, there won't be any shortages as they'll all be back on the 'new' stock they've been trained on.

Bears out what I said in my previous post - that the shortages are down to training, and once complete, there won't be any shortages as they'll all be back on the 'new' stock they've been trained on.


All those posts are outsourced, so GWR won't be advertising any vacancies, will they?

You have to remember Mr Hopwood needs to show a profit coming from GWR into First's coffers otherwise there would be no point in First having the franchise. Training crew costs money, money that would deny profit for the company.

Nothing wrong with profit. The problem may be that the incentives have not been set up so that cancelling trains put a bigger dent in the profit (and provide a greater threat to Mr Hopwood's continued employment) than training staff. 

..................no, which was why I mentioned the outsourcing, but the fact that their performance in this area is particularly appalling is another illustration of the poor decision making within GWR, and as I pointed out, they are 100% accountable for their suppliers performance.

As it's your (I'm sure) well informed position that there are numerous drivers, traincrew and ticket office staff in training and soon to descend upon the network to deliver previously unprecendented levels of service, reliability and customer satisfaction I'm sure that we will all take comfort from that.

BUT First Group invest virtually zero capital into the business.  If they don't make any profit their capital is not lost.  GWR is essentially a "pass-through" business.  They rake in a huge farebox and pass most of it out as costs keeping 3% for themselves.  Comparing them and their profit percentage to, say Marks and Spencer (or a RoSCo), is therefore completely meaningless.  A better comparison would be to compare them to say, American Express.  American Express collect huge amounts of money from card holders and pay almost all of it to retailers, retaining a small fraction of a percentage for themselves.  Now if Amex was making a profit of 3% of the total transactions on their cards, most people would regard that as a huge margin, massively unfair and contrary to the public interest.  And in fact the EU has decided that Amex's "cut" of transactions must be no more than 0.3% (and only a fraction of that "cut" is profit). 

My question is why is profit of less than 0.3% seen as adequate for Amex, but 3% is seen as barely enough for a ToC? 

It sure is, and it would’ve been worse had a short term flexibility agreement with LTV drivers not been brokered with the unions. As I said a few days ago, expect a very poor Christmas of cancellations.

And that is a caution echoed for other parts of GWR by other knowledgeable sources.

I happen to share your optimism, IndustryInsider - if only because it can't get much worse next year.  ;)

Indeed, I’m optimistic it will be much better next year.

I am reminded of a quote that I came across once - and now can't find, even given the wonders of search engines. It's something like

    Saturday, which always comes as a surprise to the Metropolitan Railway.

and (I think) it's from either Gilbert or Sullivan. Can anybody find this for me?

Is that an early iteration of the Invisible Hopwood/GWR's latest (and perennial) advertising catchphrase?  ;D

2018 all depends on the ORR signing off Reading Electrification by 28 December.

In the context of GWR changes, yes, maybe ... out of context, 1st January 2018 is unstoppable once 31st December 2017 has ended  ;D

That's an interesting take. If the Train Companies were just acting as fare collectors, it would also be a fair one, but of course they are doing rather more than that. However most passengers see high fares that increase by more than inflation every year (3.4% next year! (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/05/rail-fares-rise-ticket-prices)), and imagine that some stereotypical fat cat is in control of this and bleeding them dry, whereas as all of us here know it is the government that largely sets the level of fares. In that context, quibbling over 3% or 0.3% is indeed a red herring.

My question is why is profit of less than 0.3% seen as adequate for Amex, but 3% is seen as barely enough for a ToC? 

The ToCs do much more than simply collect fares.  But I the extra stuff they do (employ staff, buy fuel, plan timetables drive trains) is not capital intensive and therefore cannot be used to justify the profit.

What about the cost of bidding for a franchise? Does that count as 'capital'?

My question is why is profit of less than 0.3% seen as adequate for Amex, but 3% is seen as barely enough for a ToC? 

Nope, that's Opex.

There's always a 'Vogon Constructer Fleet (http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Vogon_Constructor_Fleet)'! "A lucky break for Arsenal" if it did!  ;D

Nope, that's Opex.

The extras running for the last weekend of the Bath Christmas market this morning between Bristol and Westbury have been cancelled so normal scheduled services on this line are likely to be very busy.

The extras running for the last weekend of the Bath Christmas market this morning between Bristol and Westbury have been cancelled so normal scheduled services on this line are likely to be very busy.

And now today to add to all the woes there is industrial action.


07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:32

07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:32 has been delayed at Bristol Temple Meads and is now 29 minutes late.

This is due to industrial action.

Probably linked to XC’s revised timetable due to Industrial action.

Unsurprisingly so have the afternoon’s extras been cancelled. Coupled with some trains running shorter than normal it’s not a good performance once again. We can’t say we weren’t warned by Industry Insider that this was going to be the case until the end of the year.

Why does the dispute on cross country result in cancellation of GWR  services?

Which begs the question, if Industry Insider could see it coming from months away, why didn't the Industry itself, and specifically GWR, do something about it?

And I repeat, according to GWR this morning,  ".....there is not a shortage of drivers, all timetabled services have a full complement of crew rostered in" -  so where are they all?

Then the other reason is the season, high levels of annual leave and sickness. However if you didn't have the 1st issue of approx. 20 drivers a day being released the 2nd issue would probably go all but unnoticed.

Well if you believe the GWR twitter feed??

The detail you give on training, annual leave, sickness etc is interesting and enlightening however these are factors which every Business has to deal with, basic workforce management, and in the main they cope without collapsing in the way that GWR frequently do.

The simple answer is Risk.  If you were assured a nice steady return with little likelihood of loosing your original capital, then you should expect a low rate of return. 0.3% suggests a really solid investment.  

On the other hand if you were likely to get nothing at all because the likelihood is that the company will make nothing at all or even loose your capital because the company goes bust, then you would expect a very high return to make it worth your while investing in the shares.  

Earlier post talked about shareholders.  When we speak of TOCs they are separate companies (usually) wholly owned by the holding company.  So there are shareholders - just they are corporate shareholders.

If we look at the East Coast debacle - we see that two previous companies have handed in the keys (not just exercised a break clause) and another one is about to do so.  The fact that the current Government seems likely to let Stagecoach off lightly is something that had a risk to it as well as we all know that politicians are unpredictable.  

The result therefore of DfT's push to get the best deal and, on bidding, appear to transfer huge risk to the TOC  means that bidders will factor in for higher returns to cover the risk. They say they have transferred risk.  In some (but not all) cases they have created that risk in order transfer it, which is madness as it just creates excess cost!

Government is seen as a low risk borrower so they can borrow at much lower interest rates. However when they privatise they transfer risk so must pay more. This is why some (right and left alike) are asking if privatisation is worth it.  


I disagree. It is money put up front in the hope of getting a return. If the bidder looses they get nothing! In my judgement therefore it can be considered capital.

Henley on Thames finishing the day with buses due shortage of drivers.   Many LTV services cancelled for this reason.

I assume this is referring to the later evening trains?  Expect the same or similar every night until Christmas, as I have little faith in any appropriate response from senior management.

For the late evening services, my suggestion would be temporary diagrams with selected advance notice cancellations and a minimum of 6-car length trains that do run, to apply until 22nd December.

Yep, roughly 10pm onwards............as for senior "management", I couldn't agree more.... [snip]

It will be interesting to see how things pan out tonight, probably the biggest party night of the year, I see one of the peak Maidenhead services and a mid evening one have already been cancelled.

Until then he may have to cope with some needling on here.

No comment about the copyright question but a personal attack?? Really?
The comments were directed towards the head of the company that this message board was set up to discuss - a person who has presided over operational failures that are accelerating not reducing and, most relevant of all, has completely withdrawn all means of customer feedback whilst enjoying self-congratulatory industry backslaps.
If Mark Hopwood had any courage at all he would meet his customers at Paddington station one evening, and then he might understand the pent up anger that his customers feel towards him and his management team. Until then he may have to cope with some needling on here.

I have heard a rumour that

GWR proved too much for the man,
So he's leavin' the life he's come to know,
He said he's goin' back to find
Ooh, what's left of his world,
The world he left behind
Not so long ago.

.........but I can't confirm it unfortunately 😜

I’m sure it’s fingers crossed for the new timetable in Jan.  I think if that works, he’ll stay, if not he’ll be gone...

I assume this is referring to the later evening trains?  Expect the same or similar every night until Christmas, as I have little faith in any appropriate response from senior management.

For the late evening services, my suggestion would be temporary diagrams with selected advance notice cancellations and a minimum of 6-car length trains that do run, to apply until 22nd December.

I’m sure it’s fingers crossed for the new timetable in Jan.  I think if that works, he’ll stay, if not he’ll be gone...

Does anyone know roughly what time he'll be leaving?

I hope they have it right, willing to give a few days to allow what is a major operating change to bed in.

The transition to a new type of traction and the cascade of existing stock to elsewhere is always challenging for a TOC and NR.   The short form DMU trains in the TV is a result I suspect of the 165 going west add to that the 180 progressively going off hire, the staff at OOC having to maintain HSTs yet they know the closure of the depot is oh so close, the storing of the new trains.

Add on top of that all the training of staff, its not only drivers but all the train crew as well; the fitters in the depots all needed to be trained on the new train, Hitachi having to recruit there recruitment ground being OOC and having to compete with TfL and other London train maintenance depots.  Even station staff need training in the dispatch etc of the new trains.

And keep a "normal" service running ................................ its a big task

No comment about the copyright question...

I have heard a rumour that

GWR proved too much for the man,
So he's leavin' the life he's come to know,
He said he's goin' back to find
Ooh, what's left of his world,
The world he left behind
Not so long ago.

.........but I can't confirm it unfortunately 😜

No mention of the problem at the Customer Panel Meeting on 18th November nor of number of trains out of service.  Seemed to have been kept off the Agenda.

I see that in the latest issue of Rail Magazine GWR is advertising for "Qualified Train Drivers"
 

I see that in the latest issue of Rail Magazine GWR is advertising for "Qualified Train Drivers"
 
Positions available at "Paddington, Reading, Oxford, Bristol, Gloucester, Westbury, Exeter and Penzance."

Yeah - now if only they had done this 9 months ago they could have avoided inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of passengers...

9 months ago, the delivery of IETs wasn't set in stone. And that's been the problem, along with the problem that a-driver refers to.

Training on the IET’s was only allowed to commence once testing had been completed and the IET was handed over to GWR. Testing was carried out using GBRf drivers. I think it’s something like 3 or 4 weeks to fully train a driver on the IET.

I suspect Hitachi wanted the testing done by third party drivers who couldn't be 'influenced' in their reporting back?

17.18 fast service for Maidenhead and Twyford ran non stop to Reading and the next fast service was reduced in size. Lot of angry people as these services are busy at the best of times and looked like a lot of people couldn't get on the 17.36

Just to add to the frustration it was another passenger who told everyone the 17.18 wasn't stopping where most people got off. Nothing on the displays and no announcement from the driver. Plenty of space for the few people who stayed on though...

According to National Rail Enquiries app,four consecutive trains from Southampton to Westbury are cancelled this evening. 1842, 1910, 2010 and 2110. Might try another route home... :-[

According to National Rail Enquiries app,four consecutive trains from Southampton to Westbury are cancelled this evening. 1842, 1910, 2010 and 2110. Might try another route home... :-[

Cancellation of services on the Portsmouth line actually made the travel news on BBC Wiltshire tonight although no specific details were given

Cancellations to services between Bristol Temple Meads and Portsmouth Harbour

Due to a shortage of train drivers between Bristol Temple Meads and Portsmouth Harbour fewer trains are able to run.

Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
South Western Railway are conveying passengers between Reading and Portsmouth Harbour via Salisbury and Southampton Central in both directions until further notice.

Cancellations to services between Bristol Temple Meads and Portsmouth Harbour

Customer Advice
South Western Railway are conveying passengers between Reading and Portsmouth Harbour via Salisbury and Southampton Central in both directions until further notice

The information on replacement coaches is also somewhat ambiguous appearing to be only operating between Westbury and Bristol with nothing to cover the gap between Salisbury and Westbury (or can you travel on SWR via Yeovil?)

Due to a lack of elves, this service will be formed of five instead of ten sleighs. All stops will still be served.

Seems even Santa has been hit by staff shortages

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S73184/2017/12/24/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S73184/2017/12/24/advanced)


 ;D

I think the handful of GWR drivers who do work on Christmas Day get treble time.

I think that’s true of the railways as well, hence you’d have no problems getting in enough staff for a reduced Boxing Day Service if the offer is good enough.

Agreed, but possibly causing severe overcrowding as pretty much *everyone wanting to get home* would try & use those trains, rather than a full service on the 27th/spreading themselves out, especially when the 27th is a workday.
The overcrowding/unable to board would generate the complaints one might expect. Is it something the TOCs want?

Also, the obvious question is how the extra cost (staffing being 25% of the cost of running a 'mormal' service) can be recovered. Would people pay extra? I doubt it generally, a few might, leading to empty seats if the fare differential between 26th & 27th was substantial.

I think the only way would be for the DfT to require a full Saturday service in new franchises with a triple pay/day off in lieu staff pay requirement for those choosing to work. How the lack of staff volunteering problem might be solved if it arose, I'm not sure. It could be used against the TOC should there be unrest at that time.

I’ll be undertaking a long distance car journey Boxing Day afternoon, and will report back on the state of the motorways.  Perhaps any other forum members undertaking a similar journey could do the same?  A comparison with a typical Sunday on the motorways, with an allowance for the fact they’ll be slightly busier anyway because the train isn’t an option, will give a very good indication as to likely demand.

After many years in the past having to work over Christmas and Boxing Day improving the Railway infrastructure; having changed what I do few years ago I now enjoy staying at home over those two day and only travel locally  :)

This thread has been active several months now, and this issue appears to getting worse, not better.

Is there a serious reason for this? Does GWR have issues training enough drivers|guards generally, or for particular routes, or where they over reliant on overtime and drivers|guards are not doing as much now?

Whilst my main journey, from Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads is frequent and short, I see many cancellations from the boards, and experience a fair number of them myself.

I thought we had noted that already (maybe in another thread?)

I thought we had noted that already (maybe in another thread?)

I was unaware it had been, the last thing I recall being mentioned was that it was due to be signed off between Xmas and NY, so good to see if it officially has been

Been a much much better day today, the best for a long time  :)

Things looked to have been going smoothly with the diverts to and from Marylebone. I think GWR have been wise to just operate an hourly service along with the hourly services between Bristol and Reading (to change for services to Waterloo)

GWR - Nil   Northern - 73

The run up to Christmas was very poor, but the big getaway period itself has largely been very successful - largely due to it being spread out more.

Sadly the same cannot be said for XC services with the already reduced timetable due to strike action being further reduced due to traincrew issues. Looking at RTT you have trains due to run cancelled operating only as empty coaching stock to their destinations.

Irrespective of the leverage it gives, you have to question the morals and human decency of those prepared to strike in these circumstances on Christmas Eve knowing the misery it will cause to thousands of people.

Great to hear that GWR services have held up so well today.

I would have thought that this year - with Christmas Eve being a Sunday and with the rush starting on Friday - this was more a symbolic strike at one of the least disruptive days. After all NR have already started Christmas shutdowns. 

....and the 31st....

I think this is more than a little of an overreaction TG.

I would have thought that this year - with Christmas Eve being a Sunday and with the rush starting on Friday - this was more a symbolic strike at one of the least disruptive days. After all NR have already started Christmas shutdowns. 

I don't know if XC staff are contracted to do Sundays or whether it is voluntary...

I’ll be undertaking a long distance car journey Boxing Day afternoon, and will report back on the state of the motorways.  Perhaps any other forum members undertaking a similar journey could do the same?  A comparison with a typical Sunday on the motorways, with an allowance for the fact they’ll be slightly busier anyway because the train isn’t an option, will give a very good indication as to likely demand.

So, to report back as promised.  An early to mid-afternoon journey on Boxing Day taking in sections of the M1 and M40 as well as several major A roads, and I was surprised just how busy it was out there!  I would estimate, based on previous experience, around 70-80% as busy as a typical Sunday afternoon, which is probably the best day to use for comparisons.  Noticeably less HGV traffic as you would expect, but certainly no shortage of cars, and proof in my mind that, from a national public service perspective, more trains are needed on Boxing Day.  I'll be interested to hear other travellers experiences.

Obviously that's not an in-depth study, but I don't think anyone can seriously claim that if an extensive train service operated on Boxing Day nobody would use it, but there might be the potential for overcrowding if you didn't operate trains at a sufficient frequency, or ban walk-on fares.  Both are potential options (as is doing nothing!), but I think I favour the gradual introduction of routes, so you can stop the system being swamped by reducing the number of possible journeys being available, but once you've proven you can cope with the numbers (and you can entice sufficient staff in) you can introduce more routes as necessary.

So, for example, start off with Paddington to Oxford/Bristol/Westbury and Reading to Gatwick.  Then the following year extend to Bristol and Cardiff, then if all is going well Exeter, Swansea, Worcester and Gloucester the year after that, then finally Weston-Super-Mare, Plymouth and perhaps Cardiff-Portsmouth and there you have it.  From nothing, to most of the GWR routes within 5 years.   ;)

To be generous to GWR, this MIGHT be a case of late shift drivers not turning up due to last minute sickness. Or of earlier shift drivers declining to work overtime.

Whatever the detail, it is the job of the TOC to recruit and retain enough staff to run the advertised service in all but truly exceptional conditions. GWR have failed miserably in this respect, for some months.

I'm not saying it is this, but if it was.

GWR have recruited drivers in there hundreds, I would estimate in the region of 500 drivers in the past two or three years and that doesn’t include the recruiting of already qualified drivers but as quickly as they pass out new drivers others are leaving the company.

If the current shortage is due to a higher than expected turnover I would expect HR to know the reason why and to address it.  Ditto if absence due to sickness is higher than expected.  Incidentally, I don’t buy this fake sickness suggestion.

Others have reported that RD and overtime payments have been reduced.  This is not the best strategy if you know you’re short (or going to be short) of Drivers and need to rely on RD and overtime working to keep the service going.  Drivers are a TOC’s most important resource and they need to be managed (in the broadest sense) effectively.

But then in my day there were experienced Employee Relations people.

I'm not sure many passengers would be happy being described as a resource?

Quite a significant number of which do not live locally, or have moved themselves down here into rented accommodation leaving family at whatever distant town 'home' may be.  Unsurprisingly at the first opportunity they get a job with a TOC close to wherever home is.  Is it really beyond the wit of GWR to find people who are local? (cue League of Gentlemen impressions!).

I appreciate that regarding your customers as an asset to be treated accordingly is utterly alien to the railways, and therefore I get why the concept has gone straight over your head.

I guess if they haven’t got the number of local applicants to apply then there’s not much option.

I appreciate that regarding your customers as an asset to be treated accordingly is utterly alien to the railways, and therefore I get why the concept has gone straight over your head.

Resource to me means something to be used.  Seems to be the dictionary definition as well?  Asset is a much better word.

They would have certainly had a fair idea, though a lot of juggling goes on during the day to try and minimise shortages.

There’s Turbos coming back from Bristol being put back on service trains in the Thames Valley

Funny, was just about to suggest ‘would you like some Turbos back?’ But where does that leave the West fleet bearing in mind some 150 stock has already left for up North?

07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:31 will be cancelled.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.

Facilities on the 08:00 Cardiff Central to Paignton due 11:20.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.
 
Facilities on the 06:58 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 08:10.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.

Facilities on the 07:33 Westbury to Swindon due 08:19.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 1 coach instead of 2.

Facilities on the 07:35 Taunton to Bristol Parkway due 09:03.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.

Facilities on the 07:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 10:52.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 5.

I’d like FGW to get behind a hashtag #honourthetimetable - and state as policy that no matter what the occurrence, they will run the trains timetables - even if in doing so they take a financial hit.

What says everyone ? Do we start adding #honourthetimetable with every communication with FGW ?

But run the trains involves actually having some trains available to them. No amount of money is going to get a train to magically appear in the depot! 

It leaves the west fleet short ... at least six diagrams involved ...

Well there were 35 cancellations, then it dropped to 14 - just now back up to 27.

That’s all within 1 hour.

How the hell are passengers supposed to know if a train is going to run or not ? Crystal Ball ? Make a phone call to FGW M.D.

How does this install confidence ?

I’d like FGW to get behind a hashtag #honourthetimetable - and state as policy that no matter what the occurrence, they will run the trains timetables - even if in doing so they take a financial hit.

What says everyone ? Do we start adding #honourthetimetable with every communication with FGW ?

It’s not just the money.  Anyone in any job likes to feel valued, respected, treated reasonably etc.  I know plenty of people who have moved to a lower paid job and been happier for it because of the job satisfaction they get which they didn’t get before. 

You don’t necessarily need money to reduce turnover, just good management (again, in the broadest sense) to help retain staff who you may lose if you don’t treat them right.

The wages paid to train drivers seem to me to be generous. If recruiting or retaining drivers is problematic then that certainly suggests that it is about more than the money.
There is a fairly widely held view among train drivers that there are too many "bright young managers" often with irrelevant degrees, whose job seems to be to victimise drivers.
Said young managers are widely believed to despise the train drivers whom are paid a lot more than the managers.

Are you quoting hearsay or have you actually spoken to any drivers? Many? I'm not calling your hearsay untrue, but I think you need to be upfront about your statement.

I E-Mailed Mark Hopwood at the end of last week not just about crew shortages but also about "More trains than usual under repair" and requesting a Public Statement be issued.   Guess what ?   No reply

 I do not think the 'rumblings' of low morale is solely restricted to driver's.

 In the South Devon area, where their are a lot of experienced railway people, I'm heard of similar stories.

IC services taking a real hit today with 17 cancellations listed with others terminating short. Surprisingly, ‘West’ services all looking good...so far.

Cancellations to services between Swansea and Bristol Parkway
Due to a shortage of train crew between Swansea and Bristol Parkway all lines are disrupted.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 19:00 07/01.

Or could it be ;-

Lack of train crew signing the diversionary route.

 ::)

Sorry getting my b's and d's muddled up there! ;D

Bings bollage bainbridge ?.

Terrible today affecting HSS services,  Cheltenham services especially hit.

Perhaps the future newly nationalised railway will have standardised national 7/7 contracts?

Paul

It is nothing short of preposterous that any company should try to run a 7 day business with staff only contracted to a 6 or even 5 day week.

The majority of organisations (eg the NHS) have rotas and you have to do your turn.   My daughter is a "junior doctor" (7 years qualified) and she has to do her nights/weekends/public holiday shifts as part of her contract.

I fear for summer weekends if they can’t cover at the moment despite plenty of bribes being handed out.

As for services to/from Carmarthen why don’t GWR give up?

I fear for summer weekends if they can’t cover at the moment despite plenty of bribes being handed out.

Meetings between Union and company continue with regard to bringing Sunday’s in the working week for drivers.

This service has been cancelled. This is due to more staff asking for half term week off than usual and management accepting all these requests as usual.

Does GWR's leave period run from April to March like many office based jobs? If so, does that mean there will be another spike in leave related absence in the run up to Easter weekend, which is right at the beginning of April?

I wish when I had to do rotas for a 24/7 service I could just cancel services and just put a note up saying 'sorry'.

Does GWR's leave period run from April to March like many office based jobs? If so, does that mean there will be another spike in leave related absence in the run up to Easter weekend, which is right at the beginning of April?

As far as I know all the driver and guard depots have leave allocations that run out at the end of the year, not at the end of March. 

A very small number of days can be carried over at the depot managers discretion.  That sometimes happens if a driver has tried to take holiday in December, but has had the request declined (as little as 48 hours notice as to whether you have got a day off or not is given) and they have had no opportunity to apply for another day.

It varies slightly from depot to depot and grade to grade, but around 30 is probably the average.  Higher than most people, but if you are rostered to work on Bank Holidays and want to take the day off it comes out of that total (no days in lieu), and if Christmas Day and Boxing Day fall on days you are due to work then they come off the total as well.  Usually just over 50% of those days are allocated to block weeks, with the rest ad-hoc.

It varies slightly from depot to depot and grade to grade, but around 30 is probably the average.  Higher than most people, but if you are rostered to work on Bank Holidays and want to take the day off it comes out of that total (no days in lieu), and if Christmas Day and Boxing Day fall on days you are due to work then they come off the total as well.  Usually just over 50% of those days are allocated to block weeks, with the rest ad-hoc.

Late evening LTV services decimated again - all cancelled due to lack of drivers.

22:01 Reading to London Paddington due 23:08
22:18 London Paddington to Oxford due 23:29
22:21 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 00:02
22:27 London Paddington to Reading due 23:45
23:12 London Paddington to Reading due 00:16
23:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 00:50

..............I certainly wouldn't advise going via Waterloo..........

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/waterloo-station-delays-south-western-railway-commuters-caught-up-in-huge-crowds-at-uk-s-busiest-hub-a3767951.html

22:21 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 00:02

That is a failure of the senior management and directors at GWR and FirstGroup. Someone should be kicking their butts. The problem is the only potential butt kickers are the DfT. For ideological reasons the current incumbents there won't do anything for fear of upsetting FirstGroup and scaring them away from rail franchising.

I think Stagecoach did see the trouble ahead. They refused the DfT's offer of a contract extension which meant the franchise re-tender was triggered earlier than HMG wished.

This thread, and many others on this forum, are a sad indictment of just how shit GWR has become as a train operator.

All the factors affecting rolling stock cascades, maintenance,  training, staffing levels, infrastructure improvements, haven't just crept up on GWR unannounced. They've been known about for years. GWR have failed spectacularly to plan effectively.

That is a failure of the senior management and directors at GWR and FirstGroup. Someone should be kicking their butts. The problem is the only potential butt kickers are the DfT. For ideological reasons the current incumbents there won't do anything for fear of upsetting FirstGroup and scaring them away from rail franchising.

You can't train drivers on the new trains if you firstly haven't got the infrastructure to run the new trains.  You also can't train drivers if the manufacturer of the trains haven't handed them over to the train operator. 
There's in the region of 300 drivers, probably more than that, working on the Thames Valley routes alone.  You can't train all them overnight.  The whole electrification project has been completely mishandled by the DfT and NR and GWR have been left to pick up the pieces.

I'd suggest if that's your opinion that you discuss it with GWR, as their direct response to the question posed last night was as follows;

Customer: "Last month, 2 of your staff at RDG told me you didn’t have enough trained drivers to run the new electric trains. Is this not true (in which case you need to inform your staff)?"

GWR: "This is not true"

.............the "party line" seems almost as inconsistent as the train service.

Whilst I except that that GWR is not fully to blame for the current poor show, I am sure that if every passenger whose train was cancelled at short notice, or whose train was running late, received either  100% or 50% refund of the walk on fare, then GWR and DfT would sort out this issue.

Whilst many cancellations are not a big issue for many, compensation should be given just to encourage GWR|DfT to do better. However, if you where to miss the 0624 Bristol Parkway to Penzance train, you then have a 3 hour hole in your day. This has happened this week, Monday and Thursday.
 

I'll tell you the best way to focus a few minds and encourage a swift improvement - link senior management pay rises/bonuses to customer satisfaction ratings - you'd soon see a bit more urgency if that happened.

A study of the effect of bonuses found that most people on incentive bonus schemes were incentivised by doing a good job, not by money. 

Looking at some recent City scandals where some others are motivated by money, it appears it motivates them to do things that are not in the long term interests of the company, sometimes not even in the short term interests, and possibly in some cases to fiddle to books to make it look like they achieved their targets. 

Many years ago I received extremely poor service when trying to buy a car, which I am convinced was due to the salesman (he was a man) either having such a low basic salary that he needed the bonus or was too incentivised by it that he wanted to sell me what would give him a bonus not what I wanted. Had his colleague not intervened I would have walked out at the point of sale. 

It seems to me that bonuses are at best a waste of money and at worst an incentive to fiddle the books. 

06:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 08:14
07:10 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 09:00
07:31 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 09:39
08:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 10:14
09:10 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 11:01
09:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:15
10:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:14
10:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 12:30
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:14
12:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 13:40
13:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:39
13:04 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 15:07
14:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:41
14:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:41
15:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:14
15:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 17:30
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:38
16:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:14
17:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 19:30
18:07 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 20:07
18:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:14
18:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 20:30
19:59 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 22:07
20:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 22:44
21:09 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 23:13

Up to 31 cancellations now.......but don't worry, the GWR website is advising;

There is generally a good service on the GWR network.

So no need to worry!  ::)

The 10:28 service from Reading to Bristol TM (the 10:00 from PAD) is shown on the departure boards as ‘reported full and standing’ with only 7 coaches.

1A12 Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington left Swindon full and standing. I see only the front 5 are in use on this one.

Many of the cancelled IC services are those that call at Didcot, so there are extra stops on the other already full trains.

There can be no defence for GWR having to cancel so many IC services today particularly to/from South Wales where the service is just hourly coupled with those travelling from Swansea and Cardiff having to get a bus to Newport owing to engineering work.

Bristol-Paddington outside the morning and evening ‘weekend peak’ can cope with a number of cancellations but once again the passenger is inconvenienced by the failure of the railway to run the timetabled service.

Yes there is it is as a-driver says further up this thread http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525)

I suggest you go tell those whose journeys have been messed up this past half term and this weekend and long before under the stewardship of Firstgroup. People are tired of excuses, they just want to get what they pay good money for.

Delays and cancellations happen in any form of transportation but this is about a failure to provide an adequate resource in the form of providing enough staff to run the advertised service. This has been going on for years yet the fares go up every year along with promises that things will get better for you handing over even more money.

I respect your unwavering defence of GWR ellendune but there are some high up management in GWR who are paid a lot of money to preside over a service that lets passengers down time and time again. Where’s the accountability from these managers?

There can be no defence for GWR having to cancel so many IC services today particularly to/from South Wales where the service is just hourly coupled with those travelling from Swansea and Cardiff having to get a bus to Newport owing to engineering work.

..

Hitachi as proven software on the Cl. 395’s but the DfT didn’t want that. They wanted a different unproven system, and guess what?!

Hitachi as proven software on the Cl. 395’s but the DfT didn’t want that. They wanted a different unproven system, and guess what?!

IMO GWR are being paid to take the flak for the failure of DfT and NR.  What is worse they can do absolutely nothing about it!  So who's stewardship is it?

You can criticise them for not providing enough information and for their appalling response times to letters of complaint or any of those other things, but the one thing they can do nothing about at the moment is provide a more reliable train service until:

a) The new trains ordered by DfT work reliably.
b) they are given enough time with enough new infrastructure to retrain their existing drivers to work the new trains.

DfT knew this was going to be bad - that is why GWR were given a direct award. 

Of course GWR could launch a PR campaign to explain exactly what the problem is and why it will take time to solve, but that might be seen as a career limiting manoeuvre by those people at Great Minster House.  Though I suspect they can't be that choosy or they will run out of anyone willing to bid. 

You clearly weren't a passenger on Virgin WC when they were being criticised during the rebuilding of the WCML  Or perhaps you were putting forward the same blame the TOC for everything view. This is just history repeating itself. 

GWR are far from perfect in many ways but blaming them for things outside their control is not going to help anyone.  If you think any other operator (private or - dare I say it - public) would be able to run any better service in these circumstances then you are mistaken.

This continued criticism further demoralises staff so that they are less likely to turn out when they do not need to and strengthening the power of the most militant in the unions. II makes an interesting point about the intervention of the Unions to stop some incentives to work additional hours. But GWR are also trying to negotiate with the same unions on use of the new stock.  et that wrong and you could be having to find other ways to travel like they did in Southern. 

With the benefit of hindsight GWR should have refused a franchise extension and left DfT to take it on themselves.  The train service would be no better but DfT would have nowhere to hide.  Our railways are run by real people not robots. 

If you have ever been in a position where you were being blamed for not being able do something that is totally outside your control then you should understand the effect of your criticism. 

If you have ever been in a position where you were being blamed for not being able do something that is totally outside your control then you should understand the effect of your criticism. 

06:15 and not one cancellation, short working or short formation on journeycheck, perhaps there's a shortage of trained IT staff today, give it an hour or two.

Sorry.  I understand where you are coming from but if you are aware that things will go pear shaped you should do the following in advance:

- Beef up your customer service team and make them highly responsive
- Do not launch a major advertising campaign when you know you will have problems delivering the expectations you have raised
- Set up contingency plans.  In this case planned contracted road transport that can quickly slot into place.
- Agree with your sponsor that you will explain the problems, apologise for them and make OTT payments in compensation

If you have done this then you can genuinely claim that you foresaw the problem and planned to mitigate the issues.

Now that I can agree with.  All that is within GWR's control corporately.  However remember it is seldom within the control of the staff we meet.   

"until the new trains ordered by DfT work reliably"

Do I surmise from the above quote that the new trains are NOT working reliably ? I thought that the general view was that they are splendid and that only a few naysayers and old dinosaurs like me dared to express doubts about reliability.

Yes, I did.
Can not find the post in order to quote it, but I said something like "Diesel engines and electric drives are mature technologies and should hopefully work reasonably reliably. The problems IMHO are likely to be with computers and software. Unlike mechanical components, software is NEVER a mature technology, "if it works it must be obsolete"
The new DMUs are likely to contain a large number of computer systems, all of which have to work together, first time every time"

In other posts I also expressed doubts as to electrification being completed on time, and about the reliability of the electrification equipment. I specifically forecast that a single pigeon could cause widespread disruption.

After the chaos on services to/from Wales last weekend due to staff shortages, I'd hope that GWR have sorted themselves out for this weekend, especially with a 6 Nations match at Cardiff tomorrow with all the extra traffic that entails?

Wales 6 Nations match tomorrow is in Dublin

It’s looking like bad news again if you are travelling from/to South Wales with cancellations of Newport-Paddington services from this afternoon onwards coupled with engineering work between Cardiff and Newport.

Let’s hope GWR can find some drivers and get services reinstated later.

Let’s hope GWR can find some drivers and get services reinstated later.

Tonight's selection (so far) - all cancelled due to shortage of drivers - always seems to be worse on a Friday, wonder why?

Tonight's selection (so far) - all cancelled due to shortage of drivers - always seems to be worse on a Friday, wonder why?


15:32 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 17:03
16:22 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 19:26
16:32 Reading to London Paddington due 17:33
16:45 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 17:06
17:12 London Paddington to Reading due 18:08
17:18 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 17:40
17:45 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 18:07
18:01 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 19:31
18:18 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 18:40
18:18 Reading to London Paddington due 19:15
18:45 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 19:06
19:18 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 19:40
19:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 20:50
19:42 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 22:29
19:42 London Paddington to Reading due 20:38
20:15 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 20:36
20:48 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 21:10
21:15 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 21:36
21:48 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 22:10
22:27 London Paddington to Reading due 23:29

One of GWR cut and paste Twitter replies.

We do have staff on standby but as train services start in a number of locations across the network we can't always get them to where they are needed in time.

Another one says:

Staff are rostered in but I don't know the actual specifics

One of GWR cut and paste Twitter replies.

We do have staff on standby but as train services start in a number of locations across the network we can't always get them to where they are needed in time.

Another one says:

Staff are rostered in but I don't know the actual specifics

Cancellations to services on all routes

Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Swansea:
Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
Due to a train crew shortage today, some Great Western Railway High Speed Services between London Paddington-Penzance/Bristol/Swansea/Cheltenham/Worcester/Hereford are subject to alteration or cancellation.

A majority of the additional trains that were due to operate today in conjunction with the rugby match at Cardiff are cancelled today along with many other alterations. Individual train alterations can be found on journey check, https://www.journeycheck.com/greatwesternrailway/ .

Please allow more time for your journey.

If you have been delayed you may be entitled to compensation, please visit https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/delay-compensation for more details.

Last Updated:11/03/2018 08:45

No doubt the Hopwood helicopter and/or chauffeur driven limousine are available to whisk him to wherever he wants ( wants, not needs) to go, in some comfort and style ! I don't think even ChrisB has a leg to stand on, with this one !

Discussions have been ongoing between GWR/the DfT and the unions for sometime to get Sunday’s included in the working week for both drivers and guards/train managers. I think train managers were or are on and enhanced rate as an incentive to work Sunday’s. Once the train is completed there will be more than enough drivers (I don’t know about other grades) to bring Sunday’s within the working week so it will happen.

I, for one, don’t work Sunday’s and never have done. It had nothing to do with what I thought about GWR but it was the one day I could guarantee to have with my family. My wife works Mon to Fri. I signed a contract of employment which stipulated this and no financial incentive would have changed my mind. This are T&C’s bought over the days of BR.

If another company took over the franchise our terms and conditions would not change. You would still be in a situation where Sunday’s are not in the working week.

It's a great shame that no senior manager within GWR has the courage or integrity to come out and publicly explain the reason for this ongoing farce, preferring instead to leave the grunts on the frontline (digital or otherwise) to take the stick and trot out standard non answers (which no doubt they have been briefed to offer), it is the very nadir of Leadership and the culture clearly comes from the very top down.

I have to admit I'm not entirely convinced this is a good reason. Sure, electrification was late. So run the IETs on diesel only for a while and refuel them more often: there should be plenty of fuel in the tank for a Worcester-Paddington out and back.

Nonsensical wording but some minor good news.............


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00 will be reinstated.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Will be formed of 10 coaches.

You're currently fortunate enough to enjoy those terms and conditions and no-one can blame you for taking advantage of them, it's not the fault of individual employees however the world has moved on in the decades since BR and most people get used to variations in their working practices (even the Civil Service!).

Could be unpleasant at Bristol TM and Bath Spa over the next hour with both 1705 and the 1730 (ex Plymouth) to Paddington both canned. I can imagine all those turfed off the Plymouth train werent too pleased. Neither will everyone be when all those from the 1705 and 1730 all try and get on the 1805 from Paignton to London.

Spare a thought for all those GWR staff who ARE working today having to deal with the fallout from all this from the platform staff to the Train Managers on the services that are running.

Nonsensical wording but some minor good news.............


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00 will be reinstated.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Will be formed of 10 coaches.

Don’t wish to burst your positive bubble TG, but to run this service they cancelled the service before the 1551 Swansea to London train at Cardiff. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I didn;t think there was a London Underground station near Hayes & Harlington?

Bus to Uxbridge, Ealing or Heathrow. Then take your pick of Piccadilly, Metropolitan, Central or District lines.

This is starting to make Southern/GTR look professional

Operating Obligations

1. Daily Operating Obligations

1.1 The Franchisee agrees to use all reasonable endeavours to operate on each day of the Franchise Term each of its Passenger Services as are set out in the Plan of the Day for that day with at least the Passenger Carrying Capacity specified in the Train Plan for that Passenger Service. The Franchisee shall notify the Secretary of State as soon as reasonably practicable if it has on any day of the Franchise Term failed to operate to a material extent each of its Passenger Services as are set out in the Plan of the Day for that day and with at least the Passenger Carrying Capacity specified in the Train Plan for that Passenger Service.
...
7. Obligation to use all reasonable endeavours

7.1 Any obligation in this Schedule 1.2 on the part of the Franchisee to use all reasonable endeavours to operate railway passenger services shall include an obligation to:
(a) ensure (so far as it is able to do so) the provision of the Passenger Services as set out in the Plan of the Day in accordance with the Train Plan in ordinary operating conditions;
(b) take reasonable measures to avoid and/or reduce the impact of any disruption to the Franchise Services having regard to all the circumstances, including the reasonably foreseeable risks arising from the matters referred to in paragraph 7.2; and
(c) actively manage the performance by Network Rail of its contractual relationship with the Franchisee (and provide appropriate management resources for this purpose) so as to secure the best performance reasonably obtainable from Network Rail by these means (including taking the steps referred to in paragraph 7.4), having regard to all the circumstances.

7.2 The matters to which the Franchisee is to have regard pursuant to paragraph 7.1(b) shall include:
(a) variations in weather and operating conditions (including Network Rail's infrastructure not being available for any reason), which may in either case include seasonal variations;
(b) default by, or restrictions imposed by, suppliers to the Franchisee;
(c) shortages of appropriately skilled or qualified Franchise Employees;
(d) disputes with Franchise Employees;
(e) the availability of the Train Fleet, having regard to maintenance requirements and any Mandatory Modifications;
(f) establishing reasonable Turnaround Time allowances for enabling or disabling (as appropriate) any part of a train, the rostering of any train crew and the servicing or cleaning of any rolling stock vehicles; and
(g) failures of rolling stock vehicles in service and contingency arrangements (including Hot Standbys and rescue traction).

7.3 For the purpose of taking measures in respect of any disruption to the Franchise Services in accordance with paragraph 7.1(b) and assessing the extent of any risk referred to in paragraph 7.1(b) and any such risk's reasonable foreseeability, regard shall be had both:
(a) to the historical levels of incidence of disruption in the operation of:
  (i) the Franchise Services;
  (ii) similar services both by the Franchisee and/or its predecessors; and
  (iii) other services of a type similar to the Franchise Services; and
(b) to potential changes in circumstances which may affect those levels.

7.4 The steps to which paragraph 7.1(c) refers include:
(a) co-operating with Network Rail in the development, agreement and implementation of:
  (i) a 5-year (rolling) Performance Strategy Plan; and
  (ii) recovery plans in response to failures to achieve the performance levels specified in any Performance Strategy Plan;
(b) co-operating with Network Rail in adopting the principles set out in any Service Recovery Plans agreed between Network Rail and the Franchisee from time to time;
(c) undertaking regular reviews of:
  (i) the most common and most detrimental causes of PPM attrition and delay to the Passenger Services; and
  (ii) the ten causes of delay to the Passenger Services with the longest duration (to the extent not already reviewed in accordance with paragraph 7.4(c)(i)), which have occurred during that defined review period (e.g. weekly / four weekly / quarterly) and which have been caused by the Franchisee, any other Train Operator, any other train operator licensed under the Act or Network Rail;
(d) undertaking with Network Rail a review of the time taken to recover the Passenger Services following the occurrence of any of the events specified in paragraphs 7.4(c)(i) and 7.4(c)(ii) and seeking to identify and implement actions that reduce the delay effect of such events;
(e) setting up and holding regular and effective performance review meetings with Network Rail, evidenced by meeting minutes and the closure of actions agreed between the parties;
(f) regularly monitoring (at least every Reporting Period) the delivery of commitments made by Network Rail in the Performance Strategy Plan and derived delivery plans and using reasonable endeavours to specify and develop such delivery plans;
(g) as and when required by Network Rail, co-operating with Network Rail in improving the accuracy of future timetables by providing access to trains (and data collected from on train systems), other facilities and/or information;
(h) co-operating with Network Rail in other delay management initiatives and ongoing quarterly reviews of the Performance Strategy Plan;
(i) regularly reviewing (at least every Reporting Period) the imposition and clearance of temporary speed restrictions;
(j) regularly reviewing (at least every Reporting Period) the timely and efficient handover and hand-back of possessions; and
(k) where appropriate and where Network Rail fails to perform its obligations under the Track Access Agreement, enforcing the Franchisee's rights under such Track Access Agreement.

7.5 The Franchisee undertakes to reasonably co-operate with Network Rail with regard to Network Rail's management of the network, including in relation to the establishment of up to date Timetable Planning Rules (as such term is defined under the Network Code).

7.6 To the extent not already provided for in the Franchise Agreement, the Franchisee shall use all reasonable endeavours to ensure the performance by Network Rail of its obligations under any relevant agreement including, where appropriate or where requested by the Secretary of State, enforcing its rights against Network Rail under any such agreement.

7.7 When and to the extent reasonably requested by the Secretary of State, the Franchisee shall provide to the Secretary of State evidence of the steps taken by it in order to comply with its obligations under this paragraph 7.

....  if you're a Spurs fan, you won't be getting to the match today.

I didn;t think there was a London Underground station near Hayes & Harlington?

Spurs fans WILL make it if the 08:00 PAD - SWA runs to schedule and the fans perform a Usain Bolt from Swansea Station to the Football Stadium.

What plonker at GWR decided to cancel the 06:57 from PAD which no doubt would be heavily booked for today's F A Quarter Final Cup Tie.

I swear they are doing everything they can to put people off using their services. Just looking on Twitter now, the last two Swansea - Paddington services tonight are being cancelled, no buses or taxis being offered and hotel costs only "considered.

I swear they are doing everything they can to put people off using their services. Just looking on Twitter now, the last two Swansea - Paddington services tonight are being cancelled, no buses or taxis being offered and hotel costs only "considered".

Yes an interesting exchange of tweets there between a customer and GWR.

Welcome to the forum YouKnowNothing.
 

Welcome indeed.   I'm wondering who is the "you" and what  unknown is - fascinating forum name, and I hope you'll stick around and help us learn something. :)

(I note that we'd lost a couple of weeks worth of contributions on this thread since the server meltdown!)

(I note that we'd lost a couple of weeks worth of contributions on this thread since the server meltdown!)

Maybe the server needs to have some drivers re-installed...

All cancelled. Happy Easter from GWR....

08:27 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 10:13
08:57 London Paddington to Plymouth due 12:29
09:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 11:32
10:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 12:26
11:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 13:25
11:55 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 14:16
12:55 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:15
13:40 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 15:20
13:48 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 16:14
14:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:40
14:40 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 16:21
15:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 17:32
15:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:50
16:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 18:33
16:29 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 18:14
17:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 19:32
17:20 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 19:50
17:29 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 19:14
18:20 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:50
18:40 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 20:21
19:20 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 21:43
19:30 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 21:14
19:40 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 21:20
21:03 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 22:45
21:30 Bath Spa to Swindon due 21:57
22:05 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 23:47
22:23 Swindon to Bath Spa due 22:53
22:33 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 00:17

I thought that the train crew situation was meant to be improving "in the new year" ?
This year is not of course over yet, but we are over one quarter through the year without significant improvement.

"In the new year" is generally understood to mean reasonably early in the new year.

Ah but which year  (if any) was specified? 🤔

I thought that the 769s are the ex class 319s that have been rendered bi-mode by fitting diesel engines, are these to utilised in the GWR area ?
I thought that they were destined for the North.

I thought that the 769s are the ex class 319s that have been rendered bi-mode by fitting diesel engines, are these to utilised in the GWR area ?
I thought that they were destined for the North.

It’s only an opinion, and I’m certainly not always right (witness my own ‘turning the corner’ posts at the end of last year), but we have been inept in virtually every regard since the turn of the year so it’s an opinion I hold with a certain amount of confidence.  I really hope I’m wrong.

There are a total of around 80 class 319 units and conversion could go well beyond a couple of dozen.  As third rail capable units, they have a thumping great 750v bus bar along the train, and the supply of electric to that bar from a diesel engine running under one or two of the lighter coaches in the set is logical and relatively straightforward, I am told.

ATW are due to receive 5 x 769s also.

Indeed. 

Plans for their use?    Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham services??  or Manchester services??

There are a total of around 80 class 319 units and conversion could go well beyond a couple of dozen.  As third rail capable units, they have a thumping great 750v bus bar along the train, and the supply of electric to that bar from a diesel engine running under one or two of the lighter coaches in the set is logical and relatively straightforward, I am told.

Cancelling the 18-03 is very poor indeed.

It is indeed the last through service to the far west, except on a Friday when the 19-03 runs to Penzance.

All in all wasn’t too bad a day unless you were travelling to South Wales.

With the line between Bath and Bristol closed today I had concerns for passengers using Bath Spa to travel to/from London that services could be affected by train crew issues.

Well I was right to be concerned, far worse than I thought with the train shuttle service between Bath and Swindon virtually wiped out and the few direct trains due to run from/to London either cancelled or terminating at Swindon.

I’ll leave it to others to talk through the other so far 55 cancellations apart from to say if you are hoping to travel from Cheltenham to London today forget it and as II mentioned on another thread WoE look to be affected today also.

11:55 Swindon to Bath Spa due 12:30
11:55 Swindon to Bath Spa due 12:30 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

If you have go give bad news to someone / say "NO" ...
1. Express Regret
2. Give Reason
3. Suggest Alternative

Spare a thought for the passengers on the last Paddington - Cardiff service ..

Harassed member of GWR staff on duty ...

The couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery syndrome strikes again
Frankly that is a disgusting way to treat paying customers

And whoever locked them out of Parkway and went home ,definitely needs to be spoken too and harshly.